9 ms·

I suspect many are aware of this but for those uninformed: Reiser committed premeditated murder of his (ex?)wife Nina around 2006 and hid her body so well they

by iaw 3y ago

I suspect many are aware of this but for those uninformed: Reiser committed premeditated murder of his (ex?)wife Nina around 2006 and hid her body so well they could not find her. He made his children think either that their mother abandoned them. He had thought without a body he could not be charged and convicted. I believe he waited until it was apparent he would lose the trial and then plead down so that they could recover her body. I want to believe redemption is possible, especially given how eloquent he is, but his demonstration of calculation over emotion in her murder makes me strongly question his change.

JadeNB 3y ago
> I want to believe redemption is possible, especially given how eloquent he is, but his demonstration of calculation over emotion in her murder makes me strongly question his change. I think it would be ridiculous for me to presume that I can possibly have any view into whether or not someone has sincerely changed, but why should the fact that someone was calculating once affect whether they have changed? I could see doubting the apparent demonstration of change, because they might have calculated the appropriate words to say, but I don't see any reason that a calculating person is less able sincerely to change than any other.
- iaw 3y ago
  I consider it a Bayesian approach to understanding potential internal drivers. Someone who is not cold and calculating likely has less capacity to completely present the appearance of redemption whereas someone who is calculating has that capacity. So, someone who is demonstrated to be calculating has higher odds of faking a behavior if it is beneficial to them (e.g. leaving prison). It's for him to know, but I don't think it's ridiculous for me to question.
  - jacquesm 3y ago
    I'm with you on that one. I read the whole thing closely and my conclusion is that some of what's there is playing to an invisible audience. And some of the rest of what's there feels like 'the real Hans' shining through because he hasn't really changed, but is actively trying to change how he is perceived. I could try to enumerate those bits but it doesn't matter all that much, it's just the feeling that I get from reading the text.
    - okwhateverdude 3y ago
      Same. Pretty much any instance where he mentions prison groups or classes, it is very specific and emphasizes strongly that they have changed him. And he knows his mail will be read by the prison staff anyhow. The only benefit of the doubt I have here is maybe the groups/classes promote discussing topics like this precisely because they know a parole board gives them consideration. In which case, he'd be an idiot to not play along if he's angling for parole. (And if that is the case, it wouldn't surprise me if the prison system is being duplicitous in telling prisoners that so they can be demoralized when denied, ie. "I followed the rules and did what you tell me, but you still won't let me go?")
    - fl7305 3y ago
      > my conclusion is that some of what's there is playing to an invisible audience My impression was that he got an assignment in class to write a letter where he reflects on bad interactions in the past, apologize, and try to put them behind him. I also got the impression that he really wants people to write/call him and discuss computer stuff, so this might be part of the motivation for writing it. But I don't know him, so who knows what's going on in his head?
      - bombcar 3y ago
        I've not done it, so I don't know, but I suspect you can never fully get to "I completely regret what I did because it was wrong" without having somewhat of "I completely regret what I did because I got caught". I do think we wants to discuss computer stuff; he seemed entirely unaware of SSDs and how that has (and should) change filesystems, and still thinks Slashdot is a place to post things.
        theodric 3y ago
        > Slashdot is a place to post things It is! But this isn't there :)
  - JadeNB 3y ago
    > It's for him to know, but I don't think it's ridiculous for me to question. My reference to ridiculous was to the ridiculousness of my thinking that I have any insight into Reiser's character—a disclaimer at the beginning that I was not presuming to offer any. I was in no way meaning to call you or your statement ridiculous. > I consider it a Bayesian approach to understanding potential internal drivers. Someone who is not cold and calculating likely has less capacity to completely present the appearance of redemption whereas someone who is calculating has that capacity. Yes, that was exactly what I was meaning to say. Someone being known to be calculating should create a higher evidentiary bar—they need to do more to convince me that they have changed. But I don't think that it offers any evidence against their having changed. And maybe this is what you were saying: > I want to believe redemption is possible, especially given how eloquent he is, but his demonstration of calculation over emotion in her murder makes me strongly question his change. I read this as "the fact that he is calculating makes it less likely that he has changed." But maybe you just meant "the fact that he is calculating means that I require stronger evidence that he has changed"?
    - jacquesm 3y ago
      Great comment. For me that fact means that I don't just read it with 'a higher bar' but with the possibility that what I'm looking at is created with the express purpose of deceiving me so some of it reverses in meaning.
      - prirun 3y ago
        Hans is probably high on the psychopath scale, and if you do any reading about psychopaths, the main takeaway is that you can never believe what they are saying. From Google: What is a psychopathic person? Psychopathy is a severe personality disorder characterized by interpersonal deceptiveness and calloused, remorseless use of others, as well as behavioral recklessness, impulsivity, and overt antisocial behavior (e.g., aggression, violence). From: Encyclopedia of Mental Health (Third Edition), 2023.
    - bombcar 3y ago
      A "higher bar" is basically "evidence against" because you're saying you need more evidence for. Then again, everything I've read leads me to believe he's impulsive at times (even says so in the letter!) and the calculating part was afterwards not before or during (if it was, he was notoriously bad at it).
  - PH95VuimJjqBqy 3y ago
    the assumption here is that your judgement of calculating is accurate.
dale_glass 3y ago
He was far less of a mastermind than he fancied himself at the time. If I recall, he bought a book on murder investigations and a socket set after his wife's disappearance (which was easily tracked back to him), removed car seats (blood) from his car, and willingly testified in court that it was his manly dream to sleep in the car, or something along these lines. He could have likely gotten away with it if he kept his mouth shut. Luckily he had the arrogance of believing he had actually come up with a convincing story.
- starkparker 3y ago
  For those interested in the trial, the SF Chronicle's Henry K. Lee ran a very detailed blog on it: https://web.archive.org/web/20080501184401/http://www.sfgate.com:80/cgi-bin/blogs/localnews/category?blogid=37&cat=1428 https://web.archive.org/web/20080501184401/http://www.sfgate...
  - RajT88 3y ago
    I go back periodically and read the Wired article about it. It is totally bananas: https://archive.is/BcMRF https://archive.is/BcMRF The wildest part was the friend who had an affair with his wife who blurted out unprompted on the stand that he had killed 7 people. They let that guy go!
    - jacquesm 3y ago
      The 'weird nerds' defending Reiser brought this up time and again during the trial. But Reiser showed them all up by leading the authorities to where he had buried the body afterwards so I guess that that particular angle is now settled.
      - RajT88 3y ago
        Yeah, some follow-up reporting found that the guy was lying for some weird reason. He said as much. I forget the reason.
naikrovek 3y ago
High levels of calculation in times when high levels of calculation are required to keep you out of prison are not a sign of anything. Humans are amazing at compartmentalizing things like this away, even while they are happening. It is impossible to know from this single datapoint if he is remorseful or not, but it is not at all outside of the realm of possibility. As a child I merely punched my brother and I tried to kill myself afterwards because of the guilt. In the moment I could not have been more prescient about what I was about to do and what I was doing. I recalled how I had observed him fighting others, how he threw punches, how he swung his arm based on how angry he was, and I planned an arc that took advantage of his habits and clocked him. Knocked him out in one punch. The instant he hit the floor I felt remorse like I had never felt before. Who the hell am I to take an action like that?! Anyway, how someone feels while doing something like that does not necessarily reflect how they feel at any other time in their lives. It also may reflect how they are at all times, or anywhere in between. There is no foolproof way to know.
Arch-TK 3y ago
Source on premeditated? Everything I saw made it look like it was spontaneous (and then he put a lot of work and some poor planning into trying to hide it). I could obviously be wrong, I didn't really spend that much time on it. (Note: I know he was initially found guilty of first degree murder but it appears that first degree murder doesn't necessarily require premeditation.)
- bena 3y ago
  Yeah, I don't think the murder itself was premeditated, but he did treat the event with a sort of self-serving callousness that gave the perception that he did not care about Nina's life beyond how it affected his.
  - EasyMark 3y ago
    that's not what premeditated murder is though. That's trying to cover up the murder which is also a crime, but a far cry from premeditated murder which is one of the most heinous crimes recognized by the legal system.
    - bena 3y ago
      Which is why I said I don't believe the murder was premeditated. He was able to plea to second degree in exchange for the location of the body and essentially a confession. They convicted him of first degree because without the body, there was no evidence that he didn't plan on the murder as well. Ironic in a way. He hid the body to try and hide the evidence that she was dead, but turns out that only made things worse for him. If he had called the authorities and copped to it as an "accident of passion", he'd probably be out by now.
  - pcthrowaway 3y ago
    Elsewhere in this thread (or maybe it was another thread I followed on it), didn't someone mention he suspiciously left his phone at home the day he committed the murder, whereas he would normally have the phone with him? Seems like it was probably premeditated to me if so

by iaw 3y ago

JadeNB 3y ago

> I want to believe redemption is possible, especially given how eloquent he is, but his demonstration of calculation over emotion in her murder makes me strongly question his change. I think it would be ridiculous for me to presume that I can possibly have any view into whether or not someone has sincerely changed, but why should the fact that someone was calculating once affect whether they have changed? I could see doubting the apparent demonstration of change, because they might have calculated the appropriate words to say, but I don't see any reason that a calculating person is less able sincerely to change than any other.

iaw 3y ago
I consider it a Bayesian approach to understanding potential internal drivers. Someone who is not cold and calculating likely has less capacity to completely present the appearance of redemption whereas someone who is calculating has that capacity. So, someone who is demonstrated to be calculating has higher odds of faking a behavior if it is beneficial to them (e.g. leaving prison). It's for him to know, but I don't think it's ridiculous for me to question.
- jacquesm 3y ago
  I'm with you on that one. I read the whole thing closely and my conclusion is that some of what's there is playing to an invisible audience. And some of the rest of what's there feels like 'the real Hans' shining through because he hasn't really changed, but is actively trying to change how he is perceived. I could try to enumerate those bits but it doesn't matter all that much, it's just the feeling that I get from reading the text.
  - okwhateverdude 3y ago
    Same. Pretty much any instance where he mentions prison groups or classes, it is very specific and emphasizes strongly that they have changed him. And he knows his mail will be read by the prison staff anyhow. The only benefit of the doubt I have here is maybe the groups/classes promote discussing topics like this precisely because they know a parole board gives them consideration. In which case, he'd be an idiot to not play along if he's angling for parole. (And if that is the case, it wouldn't surprise me if the prison system is being duplicitous in telling prisoners that so they can be demoralized when denied, ie. "I followed the rules and did what you tell me, but you still won't let me go?")
  - fl7305 3y ago
    > my conclusion is that some of what's there is playing to an invisible audience My impression was that he got an assignment in class to write a letter where he reflects on bad interactions in the past, apologize, and try to put them behind him. I also got the impression that he really wants people to write/call him and discuss computer stuff, so this might be part of the motivation for writing it. But I don't know him, so who knows what's going on in his head?
    - bombcar 3y ago
      I've not done it, so I don't know, but I suspect you can never fully get to "I completely regret what I did because it was wrong" without having somewhat of "I completely regret what I did because I got caught". I do think we wants to discuss computer stuff; he seemed entirely unaware of SSDs and how that has (and should) change filesystems, and still thinks Slashdot is a place to post things.
      - theodric 3y ago
        > Slashdot is a place to post things It is! But this isn't there :)
- JadeNB 3y ago
  > It's for him to know, but I don't think it's ridiculous for me to question. My reference to ridiculous was to the ridiculousness of my thinking that I have any insight into Reiser's character—a disclaimer at the beginning that I was not presuming to offer any. I was in no way meaning to call you or your statement ridiculous. > I consider it a Bayesian approach to understanding potential internal drivers. Someone who is not cold and calculating likely has less capacity to completely present the appearance of redemption whereas someone who is calculating has that capacity. Yes, that was exactly what I was meaning to say. Someone being known to be calculating should create a higher evidentiary bar—they need to do more to convince me that they have changed. But I don't think that it offers any evidence against their having changed. And maybe this is what you were saying: > I want to believe redemption is possible, especially given how eloquent he is, but his demonstration of calculation over emotion in her murder makes me strongly question his change. I read this as "the fact that he is calculating makes it less likely that he has changed." But maybe you just meant "the fact that he is calculating means that I require stronger evidence that he has changed"?
  - jacquesm 3y ago
    Great comment. For me that fact means that I don't just read it with 'a higher bar' but with the possibility that what I'm looking at is created with the express purpose of deceiving me so some of it reverses in meaning.
    - prirun 3y ago
      Hans is probably high on the psychopath scale, and if you do any reading about psychopaths, the main takeaway is that you can never believe what they are saying. From Google: What is a psychopathic person? Psychopathy is a severe personality disorder characterized by interpersonal deceptiveness and calloused, remorseless use of others, as well as behavioral recklessness, impulsivity, and overt antisocial behavior (e.g., aggression, violence). From: Encyclopedia of Mental Health (Third Edition), 2023.
  - bombcar 3y ago
    A "higher bar" is basically "evidence against" because you're saying you need more evidence for. Then again, everything I've read leads me to believe he's impulsive at times (even says so in the letter!) and the calculating part was afterwards not before or during (if it was, he was notoriously bad at it).
- PH95VuimJjqBqy 3y ago
  the assumption here is that your judgement of calculating is accurate.

dale_glass 3y ago

He was far less of a mastermind than he fancied himself at the time. If I recall, he bought a book on murder investigations and a socket set after his wife's disappearance (which was easily tracked back to him), removed car seats (blood) from his car, and willingly testified in court that it was his manly dream to sleep in the car, or something along these lines. He could have likely gotten away with it if he kept his mouth shut. Luckily he had the arrogance of believing he had actually come up with a convincing story.

starkparker 3y ago
For those interested in the trial, the SF Chronicle's Henry K. Lee ran a very detailed blog on it: https://web.archive.org/web/20080501184401/http://www.sfgate.com:80/cgi-bin/blogs/localnews/category?blogid=37&cat=1428 https://web.archive.org/web/20080501184401/http://www.sfgate...
- RajT88 3y ago
  I go back periodically and read the Wired article about it. It is totally bananas: https://archive.is/BcMRF https://archive.is/BcMRF The wildest part was the friend who had an affair with his wife who blurted out unprompted on the stand that he had killed 7 people. They let that guy go!
  - jacquesm 3y ago
    The 'weird nerds' defending Reiser brought this up time and again during the trial. But Reiser showed them all up by leading the authorities to where he had buried the body afterwards so I guess that that particular angle is now settled.
    - RajT88 3y ago
      Yeah, some follow-up reporting found that the guy was lying for some weird reason. He said as much. I forget the reason.

naikrovek 3y ago

High levels of calculation in times when high levels of calculation are required to keep you out of prison are not a sign of anything. Humans are amazing at compartmentalizing things like this away, even while they are happening. It is impossible to know from this single datapoint if he is remorseful or not, but it is not at all outside of the realm of possibility. As a child I merely punched my brother and I tried to kill myself afterwards because of the guilt. In the moment I could not have been more prescient about what I was about to do and what I was doing. I recalled how I had observed him fighting others, how he threw punches, how he swung his arm based on how angry he was, and I planned an arc that took advantage of his habits and clocked him. Knocked him out in one punch. The instant he hit the floor I felt remorse like I had never felt before. Who the hell am I to take an action like that?! Anyway, how someone feels while doing something like that does not necessarily reflect how they feel at any other time in their lives. It also may reflect how they are at all times, or anywhere in between. There is no foolproof way to know.

Arch-TK 3y ago

Source on premeditated? Everything I saw made it look like it was spontaneous (and then he put a lot of work and some poor planning into trying to hide it). I could obviously be wrong, I didn't really spend that much time on it. (Note: I know he was initially found guilty of first degree murder but it appears that first degree murder doesn't necessarily require premeditation.)

bena 3y ago
Yeah, I don't think the murder itself was premeditated, but he did treat the event with a sort of self-serving callousness that gave the perception that he did not care about Nina's life beyond how it affected his.
- EasyMark 3y ago
  that's not what premeditated murder is though. That's trying to cover up the murder which is also a crime, but a far cry from premeditated murder which is one of the most heinous crimes recognized by the legal system.
  - bena 3y ago
    Which is why I said I don't believe the murder was premeditated. He was able to plea to second degree in exchange for the location of the body and essentially a confession. They convicted him of first degree because without the body, there was no evidence that he didn't plan on the murder as well. Ironic in a way. He hid the body to try and hide the evidence that she was dead, but turns out that only made things worse for him. If he had called the authorities and copped to it as an "accident of passion", he'd probably be out by now.
- pcthrowaway 3y ago
  Elsewhere in this thread (or maybe it was another thread I followed on it), didn't someone mention he suspiciously left his phone at home the day he committed the murder, whereas he would normally have the phone with him? Seems like it was probably premeditated to me if so