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The attitude towards pornography here is immediately dismissive and negative. By far the biggest movement in porn since the internet is 'amateur'. Unrecognized

by r0s 14y ago

The attitude towards pornography here is immediately dismissive and negative. By far the biggest movement in porn since the internet is 'amateur'. Unrecognized here as direct reflection of human sexuality, movement away from fantasy to authenticity. I think the point of the article is that all media is entertainment, and journalism has lost it's informant pretense. A legit point, I don't care for porn bashing though.

kiba 14y ago
Most actors/actress are ugly. I don't really care for amateur because they are often ugly too. It'll get the job done, but it's like watching a really badly done horror movie. Not scary or sexy at all. The manga world is often in stark contrast to the reality tubes. Some of them will make you angry and some will make you fell in love with the characters. They are also often beautiful. Even though they are high quality, they might as well be mass produced. The reality tubes is mass produced but is of bad quality.
- kiba 14y ago
  I am not sure why I get downvoted.
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]
mattgreenrocks 14y ago
I see this attitude so often on the Internet: where porn is practically sacrosanct. It's way more complicated than that, and it seems intellectually dishonest to oversimplify matters. However, the real point I'd like to make is this: you are right when you mention that the author was actually discussing the perils of everything being entertaining. He'd do well to read Neil Postman's Amusing Ourselves To Death. It is downright chilling to read when you realize it was written in the eighties as the cultural impact of pervasive television was beginning to become apparent.
philwelch 14y ago
I wouldn't say it's dismissive and negative to point out that porn is inherently reductionist. The main difference is that things like nutrition, music, and intellectual enrichment need a degree of sophistication. Porn is just a method for physiological release, not a proper art form.
- Swizec 14y ago
  But why is porn not a proper art form? I think we can all agree that erotica is a proper art form. It's nudes in tasteful poses, usually with artistic intent. Hell, one could argue that most art produced in the renaissance was erotica. Or the Statue of David for instance. Ok so that's art. Similarly, we all consider most types of drawings to be art. People drawing on canvas to produce emotionally and visually stimulating stuff has always been art. Then take Pollock for instance. He is the complete bastardization of visual art. Pure colour and emotion with wanton disregard for any "form". That is still considered art. However, when you do the same to erotica and come up with porn ... it suddenly isn't art anymore? Why?
  - kiba 14y ago
    Art is whatever the janitor decides not to to throw in the trashcan. In other words, it have to be beautiful. It have to be something that an everyman want to buy. It does not matter what kind of meaning an artist put into a painting. Erotica is art because it's beautiful. Sex stories, however explicit, is beautiful. Hentai are often beautiful because they are drawn by artists who care about beauty. Porn are usually not beautiful. They have ugly characters and they are often completely forgettable.
    - Tichy 14y ago
      I assure you if I would paint something, it wouldn't be very beautiful either. Does that show that paintings are not art?
      - kiba 14y ago
        I assure you if I would paint something, it wouldn't be very beautiful either. Does that show that paintings are not art? I didn't say painting aren't art. I say that beautiful things are not art. That being said, beautiful is a spectrum. So in my view, something could be art if it is slightly beautiful or done with some slight skills. However, the ultimate test is whether or not it would be mistaken as trash.
zerostar07 14y ago
Well, what's the benefit of porn? To be a glass where you can look but cannot touch? To compensate for some oversexuality that is not freely expressed? To turn everyone into proud voyeurs? Most animals see amateur porn among their conspecifics every day and frankly don't give a damn. I bet only masturbating animals would ever buy porn. I know the internet is generally proud of its porn, but general opinion equates porn with masturbation and thus all the negative attitude. What's so positive about porn otherwise?
- Tichy 14y ago
  I remember reading about a study that showed looking at boobs raised men's self esteem. There is also a study that showed that apes (or monkeys or some animal like that) likes to pay for porn (ape/monkey porn of course). Also the sex drive is quite important for the human species. It's a huge motivator.
  - deleted 14y ago
    [deleted]
  - zerostar07 14y ago
    Sex drive is the way evolution works. Porn usually results in masturbation not evolution.
  - CompiledCode 14y ago
    Yes but out in the wild, even with monkeys watching other monkeys, sex is a social activity; watching porn alone makes it a very non-social activity. This discussion reminds me a bit of the "sugar/fructose" discussion the other day. Humans are built to crave sugary, high-calorie food. Modern society allows for an endless supply of sugar. Cue rampant obesity. I think it's beneficial to question everything; to completely detach oneself from the hivemind. Just because everyone watches porn (or it provides short-term positive benefits) does not mean it's innately good, or could/should be consumed in endless quantities, or has no negative implications.
  - SkyMarshal 14y ago
    > I remember reading about a study that showed looking at boobs raised men's self esteem. Real ones or just pictures and videos? Big difference.
evincarofautumn 14y ago
Agreed. The article is definitely an oversimplification. Sure, anything with informational or entertainment value can be optimised, so to speak. Fast food optimises for taste at the expense of balanced nutrition, and so on. But just because a thing can be optimised does not mean it’s not also subtle and nuanced. Besides, pornography does not work well in the analogy: the variety in human sexual tastes reduces its vulnerability to optimisation. The fact that there is a significant movement toward legitimacy and depth in pornography is a testament to that fact. And I have considerable respect for sites that encourage amateur content, in the (perhaps naive) hope that it will encourage more realistic expectations among the sexually inexperienced.
horsehead 14y ago
What I find very humorous (read: ironic) is that this comment thread (edit: ENTIRE comment thread) has been sidelined by discussion of porn, when the article actually referenced porn very little. probably a good indication that the article is pretty spot on.
foxit 14y ago
By far the biggest movement in porn since the internet is 'amateur'. That's because the internet has stripped profits away. It's like reality shows being the trend in television because expensive productions don't have as much profit margin as they used to. My view of porn is essentially what Naomi Wolfe's was in 2003: http://nymag.com/nymetro/news/trends/n_9437/ http://nymag.com/nymetro/news/trends/n_9437/ The only thing I'd add is that as we become more saturated in stimulation, it takes more extremes to get the dopamine hit. This goes for porn or anything else he mentions in his article.

by r0s 14y ago

kiba 14y ago

Most actors/actress are ugly. I don't really care for amateur because they are often ugly too. It'll get the job done, but it's like watching a really badly done horror movie. Not scary or sexy at all. The manga world is often in stark contrast to the reality tubes. Some of them will make you angry and some will make you fell in love with the characters. They are also often beautiful. Even though they are high quality, they might as well be mass produced. The reality tubes is mass produced but is of bad quality.

kiba 14y ago
I am not sure why I get downvoted.
deleted 14y ago
[deleted]

mattgreenrocks 14y ago

I see this attitude so often on the Internet: where porn is practically sacrosanct. It's way more complicated than that, and it seems intellectually dishonest to oversimplify matters. However, the real point I'd like to make is this: you are right when you mention that the author was actually discussing the perils of everything being entertaining. He'd do well to read Neil Postman's Amusing Ourselves To Death. It is downright chilling to read when you realize it was written in the eighties as the cultural impact of pervasive television was beginning to become apparent.

philwelch 14y ago

I wouldn't say it's dismissive and negative to point out that porn is inherently reductionist. The main difference is that things like nutrition, music, and intellectual enrichment need a degree of sophistication. Porn is just a method for physiological release, not a proper art form.

Swizec 14y ago
But why is porn not a proper art form? I think we can all agree that erotica is a proper art form. It's nudes in tasteful poses, usually with artistic intent. Hell, one could argue that most art produced in the renaissance was erotica. Or the Statue of David for instance. Ok so that's art. Similarly, we all consider most types of drawings to be art. People drawing on canvas to produce emotionally and visually stimulating stuff has always been art. Then take Pollock for instance. He is the complete bastardization of visual art. Pure colour and emotion with wanton disregard for any "form". That is still considered art. However, when you do the same to erotica and come up with porn ... it suddenly isn't art anymore? Why?
- kiba 14y ago
  Art is whatever the janitor decides not to to throw in the trashcan. In other words, it have to be beautiful. It have to be something that an everyman want to buy. It does not matter what kind of meaning an artist put into a painting. Erotica is art because it's beautiful. Sex stories, however explicit, is beautiful. Hentai are often beautiful because they are drawn by artists who care about beauty. Porn are usually not beautiful. They have ugly characters and they are often completely forgettable.
  - Tichy 14y ago
    I assure you if I would paint something, it wouldn't be very beautiful either. Does that show that paintings are not art?
    - kiba 14y ago
      I assure you if I would paint something, it wouldn't be very beautiful either. Does that show that paintings are not art? I didn't say painting aren't art. I say that beautiful things are not art. That being said, beautiful is a spectrum. So in my view, something could be art if it is slightly beautiful or done with some slight skills. However, the ultimate test is whether or not it would be mistaken as trash.

zerostar07 14y ago

Well, what's the benefit of porn? To be a glass where you can look but cannot touch? To compensate for some oversexuality that is not freely expressed? To turn everyone into proud voyeurs? Most animals see amateur porn among their conspecifics every day and frankly don't give a damn. I bet only masturbating animals would ever buy porn. I know the internet is generally proud of its porn, but general opinion equates porn with masturbation and thus all the negative attitude. What's so positive about porn otherwise?

Tichy 14y ago
I remember reading about a study that showed looking at boobs raised men's self esteem. There is also a study that showed that apes (or monkeys or some animal like that) likes to pay for porn (ape/monkey porn of course). Also the sex drive is quite important for the human species. It's a huge motivator.
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]
- zerostar07 14y ago
  Sex drive is the way evolution works. Porn usually results in masturbation not evolution.
- CompiledCode 14y ago
  Yes but out in the wild, even with monkeys watching other monkeys, sex is a social activity; watching porn alone makes it a very non-social activity. This discussion reminds me a bit of the "sugar/fructose" discussion the other day. Humans are built to crave sugary, high-calorie food. Modern society allows for an endless supply of sugar. Cue rampant obesity. I think it's beneficial to question everything; to completely detach oneself from the hivemind. Just because everyone watches porn (or it provides short-term positive benefits) does not mean it's innately good, or could/should be consumed in endless quantities, or has no negative implications.
- SkyMarshal 14y ago
  > I remember reading about a study that showed looking at boobs raised men's self esteem. Real ones or just pictures and videos? Big difference.

evincarofautumn 14y ago

Agreed. The article is definitely an oversimplification. Sure, anything with informational or entertainment value can be optimised, so to speak. Fast food optimises for taste at the expense of balanced nutrition, and so on. But just because a thing can be optimised does not mean it’s not also subtle and nuanced. Besides, pornography does not work well in the analogy: the variety in human sexual tastes reduces its vulnerability to optimisation. The fact that there is a significant movement toward legitimacy and depth in pornography is a testament to that fact. And I have considerable respect for sites that encourage amateur content, in the (perhaps naive) hope that it will encourage more realistic expectations among the sexually inexperienced.

horsehead 14y ago

What I find very humorous (read: ironic) is that this comment thread (edit: ENTIRE comment thread) has been sidelined by discussion of porn, when the article actually referenced porn very little. probably a good indication that the article is pretty spot on.

foxit 14y ago

By far the biggest movement in porn since the internet is 'amateur'. That's because the internet has stripped profits away. It's like reality shows being the trend in television because expensive productions don't have as much profit margin as they used to. My view of porn is essentially what Naomi Wolfe's was in 2003: http://nymag.com/nymetro/news/trends/n_9437/ http://nymag.com/nymetro/news/trends/n_9437/ The only thing I'd add is that as we become more saturated in stimulation, it takes more extremes to get the dopamine hit. This goes for porn or anything else he mentions in his article.