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> It's shocking to me that anyone thinks of Hamas as anything but a terrorist organization and ruthless regime. Hamas is more than that. It formed a government

by slibhb 3y ago

> It's shocking to me that anyone thinks of Hamas as anything but a terrorist organization and ruthless regime. Hamas is more than that. It formed a government that provided services to Gazans. Hamas is an offshoot of the Muslim Brotherhood, which won the 2012 election in Egypt on the same grounds: the Muslim Brotherhood was seen as fairly effective at running clinics that provided free services (it's now illegal in Egypt since the coup). None of that discounts the indiscriminate violence that Hamas has engaged in. People have to face the fact that, increasingly, the choice in the Arab world is between some kind of popular Islamist regime and a more moderate dictatorship. The civil society that forms the basis for democracy just isn't there. Islam is only comparable force. So when people talk about a future Palestinian state, they should be asking "who would the king be?"

AnimalMuppet 3y ago
"We want to provide services to our people, and violently attack our neighbors." And then, in an extreme motte-and-bailey, when anyone criticizes the violence, we get reminded of the services they provide to their people. And it's true; they do. And they violently attack Israel, with great persistence, determination, ingenuity, and ferocity. Same with the Houthis. Same with Hizbullah. Same with the Muslim Brotherhood. And Iran tries very hard to equip them for that violence. Iran is much the same, though they prefer to use proxies for their attacks. Is there anyone in the Middle East who can competently provide services to their population without being violent extremists?
- jemmyw 3y ago
  I'm going to guess that within hamas you have people who commit violence and people who provide community services, and these aren't the same people. If you want to provide for your community then the ruling organisation might be the only game in town to do that. On a very much larger scale, one might disprove of the actions of the US military but would work for the local council, and you wouldn't feel culpable because of the distance.
  - AnimalMuppet 3y ago
    Good comment.

by slibhb 3y ago

AnimalMuppet 3y ago

"We want to provide services to our people, and violently attack our neighbors." And then, in an extreme motte-and-bailey, when anyone criticizes the violence, we get reminded of the services they provide to their people. And it's true; they do. And they violently attack Israel, with great persistence, determination, ingenuity, and ferocity. Same with the Houthis. Same with Hizbullah. Same with the Muslim Brotherhood. And Iran tries very hard to equip them for that violence. Iran is much the same, though they prefer to use proxies for their attacks. Is there anyone in the Middle East who can competently provide services to their population without being violent extremists?

jemmyw 3y ago
I'm going to guess that within hamas you have people who commit violence and people who provide community services, and these aren't the same people. If you want to provide for your community then the ruling organisation might be the only game in town to do that. On a very much larger scale, one might disprove of the actions of the US military but would work for the local council, and you wouldn't feel culpable because of the distance.
- AnimalMuppet 3y ago
  Good comment.