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The greatest desire of almost every person alive is to put the responsibility for their life and decisions in the hands of others. That's what we've been bred f

The greatest desire of almost every person alive is to put the responsibility for their life and decisions in the hands of others. That's what we've been bred for. So health insurance is an absolute must, whether it's private or through the government. It doesn't even matter if the hospitals, doctors and pharmacies were actively hurting their patients, people would still need health insurance. Because the agony of being responsible for your own health would be too much for people to bear.

ceejayoz 3y ago
My kids were born three months early. What does "being responsible" for that look like? Should they enter the world a million dollars in debt already?
- carlosjobim 3y ago
  The desire is so strong that you're even arguing in defence of scammers. There is no medical procedure that actually costs millions or hundreds of thousands of dollars, those bills are simply scams – unless they're surgically switching heads between people or bringing back the dead and buried to life. As the old saying goes, it's ten times easier to fool somebody, than convincing them that they've been fooled. So I don't have any hopes. But complicated medical procedures and births are done everywhere in the world, and they don't cost millions or hundreds of thousands.
  - ceejayoz 3y ago
    No matter how you slice it, two months in a neonatal ICU is gonna cost. I've no doubt insurance negotiates that initial inflated bill down quite a bit, but under no circumstances is it ever going to be cheap. No amount of "personal responsibility" is going to stop you from being born a micropreemie, or autism, or any number of other expensive, long-term medical issues... and quite a few of these sorts of things tend to hit you on the other side as a bonus, in income/earning potential. Healthcare's like national defense; it's simply not the sort of thing you can tackle individually very effectively on a 300 million people scale.
    - SigmundA 3y ago
      >Healthcare's like national defense; Finally someone else who gets it, every time I say this I get strange looks.
    - carlosjobim 3y ago
      Sigh. I'm not asking for personal responsibility from the unborn. I don't know what you gain from twisting things that way. And I'm not particularly inclined to discuss your private medical matters. Those are yours. But the fact remains that there is an entire world outside of your circumstances, where people undergo complicated birth and medical procedures, without going into lifelong debt. Your circumstances are the outlier, because you have to seek care within a scam system. Could you pause to think why healthcare providers let insurance "negotiate" down the hospital bills of their patients? Why in the world would this be possible? If the hospital is actually charging anywhere close to what it costs for them to provide the services with some profits, there would be little room for negotiation. Especially considering that each patient is unique. So why would it be cheaper for an insurance company than for the actual patient? Medical care is not a whole-sale order. The only explanation is because it's a scam. The only real medical insurance is healthy eating and regular exercise. A medical insurance that you pay for is more an insurance against getting scammed.
      - ceejayoz 3y ago
        > I'm not asking for personal responsibility from the unborn. How should I take the comments about "the agony of being responsible for your own health" in their/my context? > Could you pause to think why healthcare providers let insurance "negotiate" down the hospital bills of their patients? Why in the world would this be possible? The insurer brings patients in bulk, and by coming to a blanket agreement to pay $x for procedure y, gets to cut out all the individual negotiation and collections mayhem that one-on-one payment arrangements bring. I get similar discounts if I order LEDs off AliExpress in quantity. > The only real medical insurance is healthy eating and regular exercise. Ooof.
        carlosjobim 3y ago

ceejayoz 3y ago

My kids were born three months early. What does "being responsible" for that look like? Should they enter the world a million dollars in debt already?

carlosjobim 3y ago
The desire is so strong that you're even arguing in defence of scammers. There is no medical procedure that actually costs millions or hundreds of thousands of dollars, those bills are simply scams – unless they're surgically switching heads between people or bringing back the dead and buried to life. As the old saying goes, it's ten times easier to fool somebody, than convincing them that they've been fooled. So I don't have any hopes. But complicated medical procedures and births are done everywhere in the world, and they don't cost millions or hundreds of thousands.
- ceejayoz 3y ago
  No matter how you slice it, two months in a neonatal ICU is gonna cost. I've no doubt insurance negotiates that initial inflated bill down quite a bit, but under no circumstances is it ever going to be cheap. No amount of "personal responsibility" is going to stop you from being born a micropreemie, or autism, or any number of other expensive, long-term medical issues... and quite a few of these sorts of things tend to hit you on the other side as a bonus, in income/earning potential. Healthcare's like national defense; it's simply not the sort of thing you can tackle individually very effectively on a 300 million people scale.
  - SigmundA 3y ago
    >Healthcare's like national defense; Finally someone else who gets it, every time I say this I get strange looks.
  - carlosjobim 3y ago
    Sigh. I'm not asking for personal responsibility from the unborn. I don't know what you gain from twisting things that way. And I'm not particularly inclined to discuss your private medical matters. Those are yours. But the fact remains that there is an entire world outside of your circumstances, where people undergo complicated birth and medical procedures, without going into lifelong debt. Your circumstances are the outlier, because you have to seek care within a scam system. Could you pause to think why healthcare providers let insurance "negotiate" down the hospital bills of their patients? Why in the world would this be possible? If the hospital is actually charging anywhere close to what it costs for them to provide the services with some profits, there would be little room for negotiation. Especially considering that each patient is unique. So why would it be cheaper for an insurance company than for the actual patient? Medical care is not a whole-sale order. The only explanation is because it's a scam. The only real medical insurance is healthy eating and regular exercise. A medical insurance that you pay for is more an insurance against getting scammed.
    - ceejayoz 3y ago
      > I'm not asking for personal responsibility from the unborn. How should I take the comments about "the agony of being responsible for your own health" in their/my context? > Could you pause to think why healthcare providers let insurance "negotiate" down the hospital bills of their patients? Why in the world would this be possible? The insurer brings patients in bulk, and by coming to a blanket agreement to pay $x for procedure y, gets to cut out all the individual negotiation and collections mayhem that one-on-one payment arrangements bring. I get similar discounts if I order LEDs off AliExpress in quantity. > The only real medical insurance is healthy eating and regular exercise. Ooof.
      - carlosjobim 3y ago