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For me it was: >Company A is 2.5 hours of drive time >Company B is remote Pay is the same. lol I imagine that Company A will find some sucker, but instead o

For me it was: >Company A is 2.5 hours of drive time >Company B is remote Pay is the same. lol I imagine that Company A will find some sucker, but instead of getting A+ workers that can realize company B> company A, they are going to get the leftover workers, their second choice. To be fair, leftover workers seem to stick around at a company for 10-20 years.

miroljub 3y ago
Why call people suckers? Maybe they don't mind commuting? Maybe their commute is only 15 minutes, and not 2.5 hours? > To be fair, leftover workers seem to stick around at a company for 10-20 years. Even if they were "leftovers", their value to the company they know in and out after 10 to 20 years and their productivity skyrockets compared to the A+ rock stars that left the company after one year.
- oneplane 3y ago
  I think they would be referred to as 'suckers' because they are spending time for their employer for which they are not compensated in that scenario (two options, both pay the same, but one requires you to sacrifice significant portions of your day for no compensation).
  - pigbearpig 3y ago
    Bill might like a long commute as much as Gladys likes to work from home. Hard to call Bill a sucker in that case.
    - bdw5204 3y ago
      The only reason I can imagine that somebody would genuinely like a long commute would be if they hate their home life and are trying to escape from it. They'd probably be better off just getting a divorce instead.
      - coldpie 3y ago
        My commute is about 40 minutes each way by bus, plus a 5 minute walk on both ends. I love it. I get outdoors for a short walk four times a day, I read books and magazines on the bus, see what's being built or new businesses opening around town, sometimes I get to meet neighbors and other commuters, or help out random strangers with directions or whatever. My commute to work is definitely a benefit to my life.
        ProjectArcturis 3y ago
        If you had a remote job, would you take a 40-minute round-trip bus ride twice a day just for the enjoyment of it?
        coldpie 3y ago
        No.
        mikrl 3y ago
        During the summer when I work from home I take a 20 minute walk at 8:30 (and water my tomatoes) and a 20 minute walk at 12:00 before settling back into my home office with lunch. If I’m feeling up to it, I get another 30-40 minute walk in once it cools off in the evening. I don’t mind driving in during the winter though, because then I don’t have to pay to heat my house (beyond 15C for the cat) for the day.
        hospitalJail 3y ago
        The human brain is incredible at rationalization.
        coldpie 3y ago
        In this thread, hospitalJail discovers that some people enjoy leaving their basement :)
        hospitalJail 3y ago
    - jimmydddd 3y ago
      I've been WFH for 15 years and love it. My wife has been WFH for 3 years. While I do prefer WFH, I think there were benefits to us being apart during the work day and then catching up at dinner/evening. There are some downsides to being together 24/7, even in a good relationship.
    - oneplane 3y ago
      Gladys can drive around for hours at will, while Bill has no choice. Bill is still a sucker.
      - sanderjd 3y ago
        There can actually be significant value to limiting optionality. This is the solution to "the paradox of choice"; sometimes it's actually better to have fewer choices! I find this very unintuitive and even mentally rebel at the idea when I think about it, but I still think it's true. But for example, consider three scenarios: 1. Work from home, with a consistent habit of going on a ten minute walk and reading for half an hour before and after work. 2. Commute with a ten minute walk and half hour train ride, with a consistent habit of reading on the train. 3. Same as (1), but family responsibilities and other distractions end the moment work begins and begin the moment work ends. 4. Same as (2), but spend the train ride doom scrolling. For me (1) is best but also unlikely because there are too many other "choices" of what to do before and after work, so in practice I end up doing (3). But option (2) of commuting by train would actually be better than (3) despite having less optionality! I would have more wind-up and -down time each day, and get more reading done. But the risk of option (2) is that there is still too much optionality; instead of reading, I could scroll crap on my phone. Removing that optionality somehow - by getting a dumb phone or some other solution to keep myself from this bad habit - would be another improvement. Clearly it would be better to make better choices without limiting options, but human nature being what it is, it often turns out better in practice to not have the other options at all.
  - pc86 3y ago
    15 minutes is not significant.
    - zer0tonin 3y ago
      15 * 2 minutes a day 5 times a week is 100h+ by the end of the year
      - Novosell 3y ago
        130h a year, assuming you work 5 days every week and that every commute is exactly 15min.
      - pc86 3y ago
        It's 1.4% of the year (assuming that 130 hours a year is correct I didn't check it). That's less than two ounces out of a gallon of liquid or less than half a centimeter out of a foot. In what other things is 1.4% considered "significant?"
        dgfitz 3y ago
        Taxes jump to mind. COL adjustments vs inflation for the past few years also comes to mind. Beating some measurable world record by 1.4% is probably a big deal. I'm sure there are more examples if you look for them.
        helboi4 3y ago
        Bro nobody is spending 100% of their time being productive. we have to have transitional time. time going from one place to another is a net benefit because living in one box is anti-human. for me the cost of the time is so so worth it because i feel so much better seeing my colleagues in person. i become a shell of myself if i don't leave the house so losing the time is something i'm very okay with. its such a small amount of time to make my life 200x better.
      - miroljub 3y ago
        You can read 10 books during that time. It's not like you need to sit there, do nothing and intensively hate your life 2 * 15 minutes a day.
  - Retric 3y ago
    You negotiate compensation before accepting the job and generally have the option to move. If anything it’s people failing to consider commute times when looking for work that’s the issue not company’s requirements. Going they will pay me 10k more per year but I’ll spend X more hours a week commuting is effectively being paid to commute.
    - vidarh 3y ago
      Hence calling them suckers. Doing the commute is fine, but not taking it into account is potentially seeking yourself short(even if you end up feeling forced to take an offer you feel doesn't take it into account - at least then you're aware).
      - sokoloff 3y ago
        Who are these people who are competent enough to hold an engineering position but do so without taking the facts of a commute into account?
        vidarh 3y ago
        Given the low proportion of people I've extended employment offers to over the years who even try to negotiate terms or drill down into employment terms that might affect the value, I'd assume it applies to most engineers. At some point I got a week more holiday than every other employee in the UK at my employer at the time because I was the only hire who had questioned a contract clause and gotten them to confirm my preferred interpretation of a woefully misleading clause in writing before signing, and when they later wanted to stick to the technicalities of how it was written I was able to just forward them an email from the COO confirming that in my case they'd agreed to my interpretation. Most people seem to only pay attention to the headline amount, and then grumble about the consequences after the fact.
DiggyJohnson 3y ago
Would I be a sucker if I have a 12 minute commute and prefer going into the office with my teammates?
- hospitalJail 3y ago
  No one lives 12 minutes away from this place. They picked the 'Ohio' of our state to build their HQ. Cheap land.
neverrroot 3y ago
Wow, just wow. Calling someone a sucker for taking a job, without considering anything else. What about the top of the crop who live around the corner and prefer office over WFH for a clear separation between work and personal life?
- justapassenger 3y ago
  Tech is full of people like OP. You got good paying job (because profession is hot) so you’re obviously smarter than everyone else, and your way of thinking and living is only right one.
  - tveyben 3y ago
    ‘Smarter’ or just ‘different’…?
importantbrian 3y ago
I don't think that's entirely true. I know a few A+ people who enjoy being in the office and hate working from home. I don't know how many of those folks there are, but I don't think company A would be totally stuck with leftover workers.

miroljub 3y ago

Why call people suckers? Maybe they don't mind commuting? Maybe their commute is only 15 minutes, and not 2.5 hours? > To be fair, leftover workers seem to stick around at a company for 10-20 years. Even if they were "leftovers", their value to the company they know in and out after 10 to 20 years and their productivity skyrockets compared to the A+ rock stars that left the company after one year.

oneplane 3y ago
I think they would be referred to as 'suckers' because they are spending time for their employer for which they are not compensated in that scenario (two options, both pay the same, but one requires you to sacrifice significant portions of your day for no compensation).
- pigbearpig 3y ago
  Bill might like a long commute as much as Gladys likes to work from home. Hard to call Bill a sucker in that case.
  - bdw5204 3y ago
    The only reason I can imagine that somebody would genuinely like a long commute would be if they hate their home life and are trying to escape from it. They'd probably be better off just getting a divorce instead.
    - coldpie 3y ago
      My commute is about 40 minutes each way by bus, plus a 5 minute walk on both ends. I love it. I get outdoors for a short walk four times a day, I read books and magazines on the bus, see what's being built or new businesses opening around town, sometimes I get to meet neighbors and other commuters, or help out random strangers with directions or whatever. My commute to work is definitely a benefit to my life.
      - ProjectArcturis 3y ago
        If you had a remote job, would you take a 40-minute round-trip bus ride twice a day just for the enjoyment of it?
        coldpie 3y ago
        No.
      - mikrl 3y ago
        During the summer when I work from home I take a 20 minute walk at 8:30 (and water my tomatoes) and a 20 minute walk at 12:00 before settling back into my home office with lunch. If I’m feeling up to it, I get another 30-40 minute walk in once it cools off in the evening. I don’t mind driving in during the winter though, because then I don’t have to pay to heat my house (beyond 15C for the cat) for the day.
      - hospitalJail 3y ago
        The human brain is incredible at rationalization.
        coldpie 3y ago
        In this thread, hospitalJail discovers that some people enjoy leaving their basement :)
        hospitalJail 3y ago
  - jimmydddd 3y ago
    I've been WFH for 15 years and love it. My wife has been WFH for 3 years. While I do prefer WFH, I think there were benefits to us being apart during the work day and then catching up at dinner/evening. There are some downsides to being together 24/7, even in a good relationship.
  - oneplane 3y ago
    Gladys can drive around for hours at will, while Bill has no choice. Bill is still a sucker.
    - sanderjd 3y ago
      There can actually be significant value to limiting optionality. This is the solution to "the paradox of choice"; sometimes it's actually better to have fewer choices! I find this very unintuitive and even mentally rebel at the idea when I think about it, but I still think it's true. But for example, consider three scenarios: 1. Work from home, with a consistent habit of going on a ten minute walk and reading for half an hour before and after work. 2. Commute with a ten minute walk and half hour train ride, with a consistent habit of reading on the train. 3. Same as (1), but family responsibilities and other distractions end the moment work begins and begin the moment work ends. 4. Same as (2), but spend the train ride doom scrolling. For me (1) is best but also unlikely because there are too many other "choices" of what to do before and after work, so in practice I end up doing (3). But option (2) of commuting by train would actually be better than (3) despite having less optionality! I would have more wind-up and -down time each day, and get more reading done. But the risk of option (2) is that there is still too much optionality; instead of reading, I could scroll crap on my phone. Removing that optionality somehow - by getting a dumb phone or some other solution to keep myself from this bad habit - would be another improvement. Clearly it would be better to make better choices without limiting options, but human nature being what it is, it often turns out better in practice to not have the other options at all.
- pc86 3y ago
  15 minutes is not significant.
  - zer0tonin 3y ago
    15 * 2 minutes a day 5 times a week is 100h+ by the end of the year
    - Novosell 3y ago
      130h a year, assuming you work 5 days every week and that every commute is exactly 15min.
    - pc86 3y ago
      It's 1.4% of the year (assuming that 130 hours a year is correct I didn't check it). That's less than two ounces out of a gallon of liquid or less than half a centimeter out of a foot. In what other things is 1.4% considered "significant?"
      - dgfitz 3y ago
        Taxes jump to mind. COL adjustments vs inflation for the past few years also comes to mind. Beating some measurable world record by 1.4% is probably a big deal. I'm sure there are more examples if you look for them.
        helboi4 3y ago
        Bro nobody is spending 100% of their time being productive. we have to have transitional time. time going from one place to another is a net benefit because living in one box is anti-human. for me the cost of the time is so so worth it because i feel so much better seeing my colleagues in person. i become a shell of myself if i don't leave the house so losing the time is something i'm very okay with. its such a small amount of time to make my life 200x better.
    - miroljub 3y ago
      You can read 10 books during that time. It's not like you need to sit there, do nothing and intensively hate your life 2 * 15 minutes a day.
- Retric 3y ago
  You negotiate compensation before accepting the job and generally have the option to move. If anything it’s people failing to consider commute times when looking for work that’s the issue not company’s requirements. Going they will pay me 10k more per year but I’ll spend X more hours a week commuting is effectively being paid to commute.
  - vidarh 3y ago
    Hence calling them suckers. Doing the commute is fine, but not taking it into account is potentially seeking yourself short(even if you end up feeling forced to take an offer you feel doesn't take it into account - at least then you're aware).
    - sokoloff 3y ago
      Who are these people who are competent enough to hold an engineering position but do so without taking the facts of a commute into account?
      - vidarh 3y ago
        Given the low proportion of people I've extended employment offers to over the years who even try to negotiate terms or drill down into employment terms that might affect the value, I'd assume it applies to most engineers. At some point I got a week more holiday than every other employee in the UK at my employer at the time because I was the only hire who had questioned a contract clause and gotten them to confirm my preferred interpretation of a woefully misleading clause in writing before signing, and when they later wanted to stick to the technicalities of how it was written I was able to just forward them an email from the COO confirming that in my case they'd agreed to my interpretation. Most people seem to only pay attention to the headline amount, and then grumble about the consequences after the fact.

DiggyJohnson 3y ago

Would I be a sucker if I have a 12 minute commute and prefer going into the office with my teammates?

hospitalJail 3y ago
No one lives 12 minutes away from this place. They picked the 'Ohio' of our state to build their HQ. Cheap land.

neverrroot 3y ago

Wow, just wow. Calling someone a sucker for taking a job, without considering anything else. What about the top of the crop who live around the corner and prefer office over WFH for a clear separation between work and personal life?

justapassenger 3y ago
Tech is full of people like OP. You got good paying job (because profession is hot) so you’re obviously smarter than everyone else, and your way of thinking and living is only right one.
- tveyben 3y ago
  ‘Smarter’ or just ‘different’…?

importantbrian 3y ago

I don't think that's entirely true. I know a few A+ people who enjoy being in the office and hate working from home. I don't know how many of those folks there are, but I don't think company A would be totally stuck with leftover workers.