5 ms·

Maybe this is reasonable, iff it only applies to fake media that is indistinguishable from the real thing. Like, if you show a jury two videos and they can't te

Maybe this is reasonable, iff it only applies to fake media that is indistinguishable from the real thing. Like, if you show a jury two videos and they can't tell which one is real and which one is fake. I can accept that there is an implied claim of realism by creating realistic media, and that would be a lie, very similar to libel.

mattw2121 3y ago
I understand and appreciate your point, but I would like to point out there is a large segment of society that, if shown an article from The Onion, wouldn't realize it is satire.
- dotancohen 3y ago
  And those peoples' votes matter no less than yours. Misinformation is very dangerous in a democracy, especially when it is easier to sow than real information.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
- Buttons840 3y ago
  I think it's okay for The Onion to make satirical news reports, but maybe not okay to make a realistic deep-fake of someone. An actor could dress and act like that person though.
  - criddell 3y ago
    Would this be allowed: https://www.theonion.com/frail-emaciated-mlb-players-still-a-few-weeks-away-fro-1851169390 https://www.theonion.com/frail-emaciated-mlb-players-still-a... In case you aren't a baseball fan, that's a photoshopped image of baseball player Cory Seager.
    - wegfawefgawefg 3y ago
      I was maybe on Buttons side but your checkmate won me over.
  - Cheer2171 3y ago
    What about a comedian who does voice impressions that are good enough to be indistinguishable from the politician to the average person?
    - jprete 3y ago
      If the comedian starts using that ability to make people think the politician said something they didn't say, then the comedian is guilty of fraud. Also, "humans can do it" is not a reason to allow AI to do the same thing. GenAI systems can do things at high speed 24 hours a day forever and the fraud potential is much much much higher.
      - willcipriano 3y ago
        > then the comedian is guilty of fraud Fraud wrongful or criminal deception intended to result in financial or personal gain What's the personal gain here?
        hn_acker 3y ago
        Thought experiment: If I steal someone else's credit card to buy things (example from FindLaw [1]) that I won't use just to harm my victim, would I be committing fraud? Or would only the non-fraud charges apply? [1] https://www.findlaw.com/criminal/criminal-charges/fraud.html https://www.findlaw.com/criminal/criminal-charges/fraud.html
        Cheer2171 3y ago
        Don't trust findlaw.com or a dictionary definition. It doesn't matter if you personally gain. Here is the actual text of the US federal fraud statute [1] "....obtaining money or property by means of false or fraudulent pretenses, representations, or promises....." [1] https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1341 https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1341
      - wegfawefgawefg 3y ago
        Thats not fraud thats just lying. lying is legal.
cogman10 3y ago
I think it entirely depends on what the media is doing. I don't care if a hyper realistic political figure impersonator gets up and does a comedy sketch. What I care about is if said impersonator got up and said "I, bob dole, use depends and think that everyone should use it". That is, deception used for comedic effect should be protected. Deception used to hawk goods should not be ok.
- wegfawefgawefg 3y ago
  Its the internet. You can just decieve people anonymously even if its illegal.
  - cogman10 3y ago
    Right, but can McDonald's run a commercial with AI linus torvalds endorsing their product? I think that fakes happening on the internet isn't super interesting. Those are typically smaller scams anyways. I worry way more about much larger companies doing "Here's what so and so would say about this circumstance with our ai generation" or whatever. Large companies have much larger reach than bitcoin scammers.
    - wegfawefgawefg 3y ago
      If the conditions of tge laws sre made such that there is no overreach into individial freedoms i agree with you. But that is a big ask.
- Pxtl 3y ago
  > Deception used to hawk goods should not be ok. Honestly, focusing on AI seems silly since the internet, at this point, is completely neck-deep in deceptive scams being pushed by reputable, mainstream, important orgs. Google, Facebook, Amazon, etc. take in literal billions of revenue to show people scam ads. The scammers are directly paying them money - presumably these are not anonymous orgs, but people with credit card numbers and ID. And the big internet giants just gladly act as for-profit middle-men for ripping off confused elderly people, because reviewing the ads posted to their platform isn't practical. Something has completely failed in enforcement.

mattw2121 3y ago

I understand and appreciate your point, but I would like to point out there is a large segment of society that, if shown an article from The Onion, wouldn't realize it is satire.

dotancohen 3y ago
And those peoples' votes matter no less than yours. Misinformation is very dangerous in a democracy, especially when it is easier to sow than real information.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
Buttons840 3y ago
I think it's okay for The Onion to make satirical news reports, but maybe not okay to make a realistic deep-fake of someone. An actor could dress and act like that person though.
- criddell 3y ago
  Would this be allowed: https://www.theonion.com/frail-emaciated-mlb-players-still-a-few-weeks-away-fro-1851169390 https://www.theonion.com/frail-emaciated-mlb-players-still-a... In case you aren't a baseball fan, that's a photoshopped image of baseball player Cory Seager.
  - wegfawefgawefg 3y ago
    I was maybe on Buttons side but your checkmate won me over.
- Cheer2171 3y ago
  What about a comedian who does voice impressions that are good enough to be indistinguishable from the politician to the average person?
  - jprete 3y ago
    If the comedian starts using that ability to make people think the politician said something they didn't say, then the comedian is guilty of fraud. Also, "humans can do it" is not a reason to allow AI to do the same thing. GenAI systems can do things at high speed 24 hours a day forever and the fraud potential is much much much higher.
    - willcipriano 3y ago
      > then the comedian is guilty of fraud Fraud wrongful or criminal deception intended to result in financial or personal gain What's the personal gain here?
      - hn_acker 3y ago
        Thought experiment: If I steal someone else's credit card to buy things (example from FindLaw [1]) that I won't use just to harm my victim, would I be committing fraud? Or would only the non-fraud charges apply? [1] https://www.findlaw.com/criminal/criminal-charges/fraud.html https://www.findlaw.com/criminal/criminal-charges/fraud.html
        Cheer2171 3y ago
        Don't trust findlaw.com or a dictionary definition. It doesn't matter if you personally gain. Here is the actual text of the US federal fraud statute [1] "....obtaining money or property by means of false or fraudulent pretenses, representations, or promises....." [1] https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1341 https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1341
    - wegfawefgawefg 3y ago
      Thats not fraud thats just lying. lying is legal.

cogman10 3y ago

I think it entirely depends on what the media is doing. I don't care if a hyper realistic political figure impersonator gets up and does a comedy sketch. What I care about is if said impersonator got up and said "I, bob dole, use depends and think that everyone should use it". That is, deception used for comedic effect should be protected. Deception used to hawk goods should not be ok.

wegfawefgawefg 3y ago
Its the internet. You can just decieve people anonymously even if its illegal.
- cogman10 3y ago
  Right, but can McDonald's run a commercial with AI linus torvalds endorsing their product? I think that fakes happening on the internet isn't super interesting. Those are typically smaller scams anyways. I worry way more about much larger companies doing "Here's what so and so would say about this circumstance with our ai generation" or whatever. Large companies have much larger reach than bitcoin scammers.
  - wegfawefgawefg 3y ago
    If the conditions of tge laws sre made such that there is no overreach into individial freedoms i agree with you. But that is a big ask.
Pxtl 3y ago
> Deception used to hawk goods should not be ok. Honestly, focusing on AI seems silly since the internet, at this point, is completely neck-deep in deceptive scams being pushed by reputable, mainstream, important orgs. Google, Facebook, Amazon, etc. take in literal billions of revenue to show people scam ads. The scammers are directly paying them money - presumably these are not anonymous orgs, but people with credit card numbers and ID. And the big internet giants just gladly act as for-profit middle-men for ripping off confused elderly people, because reviewing the ads posted to their platform isn't practical. Something has completely failed in enforcement.