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All 2nd hand cars in the UK are currently depressed. Battery 2nd hand have been depressed even during autumn 2022 when 1 year waiting lists for new models (comb

All 2nd hand cars in the UK are currently depressed. Battery 2nd hand have been depressed even during autumn 2022 when 1 year waiting lists for new models (combustion or ev) weren’t unheard of. For example, a 3 year old Nissan leaf with higher mileage could be had for £15k during that time. A 3 year old higher mileage goes for £7.5k today. The model in question was circa £30k new. If you’re in the market for an EV in the UK, today your money goes quite a bit further 2nd hand than you might expect. Low mileage Porsche Taycan Performance Pro’s (the 100+ kWh pack) are hovering around 50k at 2-3 years old. More than 60% depreciation. Mercedes EQC market has been flooded for some reason, you can get a new lease (personal) for under £300/mo on a 3 month upfront/8k miles. Second hand these are trading similarly down like the Taycan. You’d have to be mad to buy any of these new. A realistically priced lease would be the way to go if you want new but 2nd hand nearly new seems the better choice if you’re willing to wear the risk that these cars don’t have a floor (seems unlikely, even in basket-case-onomics uk 2nd hand car market)

bb123 3y ago
The Corsa-e/e208 is also a shockingly good deal - you can pick a 2 year old one up with <20k miles for 10-12k.
- CraigJPerry 3y ago
  I think that same powertrain is being used across many vehicles - even a full size van. Maybe that will mean cheaper battery replacement in future if there's such a common market for these?
tomxor 3y ago
> You’d have to be mad to buy any of these new. I think the opposite. I've always bought 2nd hand ICE cars in the UK, as the vast majority of people do. Each one between 8 and 20 years old, each perfectly usable reliable cars. I've looked at the prospect of 2nd hand EVs here and you see most stuff around the 10 year mark the range is in the toilet and a non starter as a main car. Even though the battery tech has improved, it's still on a clock... so even when eyeballing EVs in the ~5 year old bracket, they may be slightly better, but you still have to consider that in another 5 years it's basically going to be unusable and unsellable. If new EVs get cheap enough (and I mean real cheap to compete with what we are used to in the old and entirely functional 2nd hand ICE market), only then does make any financial sense to most people, they are still not ready for the masses. Either the battery technology has to vastly improve in longevity or some reclaimability of value, or the cost of new one's needs to plummet.
- thebruce87m 3y ago
  > another 5 years it's basically going to be unusable If you don’t have evidence to back this up, stop saying it. Some people are stupid enough to believe it at face value.
  - tomxor 3y ago
    This isn't some crackpot theory you have the burden of debunking, it's well known that EV batteries do not last. Browse autotrader.co.uk for EVs and you will see almost everything around 10yr has a severely deflated range and limited future, that's why some end up being sold at absurdly low prices - because without an entire new battery it's effectively become a milk float. I'm not saying that is inevitable, but the evidence from simply browsing the second hand market for EVs show that's it's current state. I want to get on the EV bandwagon, but it's not economical enough yet, I understand that's probably not true for most of the HN crowd.
    - thebruce87m 3y ago
      > it's well known that EV batteries do not last. Sure, some people say this and others spread it. I’m sure there are a bunch of older leafs and Zoes on Autotrader with no thermal management. Meanwhile, let’s look at what happens when you do batteries properly: > By ten years of age, cars were down to 82.5% of the original capacity. https://www.nimblefins.co.uk/study-real-life-tesla-battery-deterioration https://www.nimblefins.co.uk/study-real-life-tesla-battery-d... And they will be on NMC batteries. LFP batteries will last longer: > A key advantage of LFP is its longer life cycle, resulting in less degradation concerns. LFP packs are capable of more than 3000 full recharge cycle counts compared to NMC at around 1000 to 2000 cycles. https://zecar.com/resources/what-are-lfp-nmc-nca-batteries-in-electric-cars https://zecar.com/resources/what-are-lfp-nmc-nca-batteries-i...
      - CraigJPerry 3y ago
        Which is fine but it doesn't change the fact that: https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202401185680084 https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202401185680084 exists. That's a clean condition 12 year old, 2 owner car with only 37k miles on the clock. Listed for only £3500. The downside is it has a 100% to 0% range of 50 miles and in real world usage more like 35-ish in good weather. A quick google suggests 15 mile range is not unrealistic in cold weather with heater turned OFF. What use is that car to the general public? This isn't a fast charging car, after you do your grocery shop you need to plug that back in for 10+ hours.

bb123 3y ago

The Corsa-e/e208 is also a shockingly good deal - you can pick a 2 year old one up with <20k miles for 10-12k.

CraigJPerry 3y ago
I think that same powertrain is being used across many vehicles - even a full size van. Maybe that will mean cheaper battery replacement in future if there's such a common market for these?

tomxor 3y ago

> You’d have to be mad to buy any of these new. I think the opposite. I've always bought 2nd hand ICE cars in the UK, as the vast majority of people do. Each one between 8 and 20 years old, each perfectly usable reliable cars. I've looked at the prospect of 2nd hand EVs here and you see most stuff around the 10 year mark the range is in the toilet and a non starter as a main car. Even though the battery tech has improved, it's still on a clock... so even when eyeballing EVs in the ~5 year old bracket, they may be slightly better, but you still have to consider that in another 5 years it's basically going to be unusable and unsellable. If new EVs get cheap enough (and I mean real cheap to compete with what we are used to in the old and entirely functional 2nd hand ICE market), only then does make any financial sense to most people, they are still not ready for the masses. Either the battery technology has to vastly improve in longevity or some reclaimability of value, or the cost of new one's needs to plummet.

thebruce87m 3y ago
> another 5 years it's basically going to be unusable If you don’t have evidence to back this up, stop saying it. Some people are stupid enough to believe it at face value.
- tomxor 3y ago
  This isn't some crackpot theory you have the burden of debunking, it's well known that EV batteries do not last. Browse autotrader.co.uk for EVs and you will see almost everything around 10yr has a severely deflated range and limited future, that's why some end up being sold at absurdly low prices - because without an entire new battery it's effectively become a milk float. I'm not saying that is inevitable, but the evidence from simply browsing the second hand market for EVs show that's it's current state. I want to get on the EV bandwagon, but it's not economical enough yet, I understand that's probably not true for most of the HN crowd.
  - thebruce87m 3y ago
    > it's well known that EV batteries do not last. Sure, some people say this and others spread it. I’m sure there are a bunch of older leafs and Zoes on Autotrader with no thermal management. Meanwhile, let’s look at what happens when you do batteries properly: > By ten years of age, cars were down to 82.5% of the original capacity. https://www.nimblefins.co.uk/study-real-life-tesla-battery-deterioration https://www.nimblefins.co.uk/study-real-life-tesla-battery-d... And they will be on NMC batteries. LFP batteries will last longer: > A key advantage of LFP is its longer life cycle, resulting in less degradation concerns. LFP packs are capable of more than 3000 full recharge cycle counts compared to NMC at around 1000 to 2000 cycles. https://zecar.com/resources/what-are-lfp-nmc-nca-batteries-in-electric-cars https://zecar.com/resources/what-are-lfp-nmc-nca-batteries-i...
    - CraigJPerry 3y ago
      Which is fine but it doesn't change the fact that: https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202401185680084 https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202401185680084 exists. That's a clean condition 12 year old, 2 owner car with only 37k miles on the clock. Listed for only £3500. The downside is it has a 100% to 0% range of 50 miles and in real world usage more like 35-ish in good weather. A quick google suggests 15 mile range is not unrealistic in cold weather with heater turned OFF. What use is that car to the general public? This isn't a fast charging car, after you do your grocery shop you need to plug that back in for 10+ hours.