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I've not yet read to the end so apologies if this idea is covered already, but a ctrl+F for "colour" (and "color") yields nothing so I'll comment away: > "If y

by swores 3y ago

I've not yet read to the end so apologies if this idea is covered already, but a ctrl+F for "colour" (and "color") yields nothing so I'll comment away: > "If you’re thinking ahead you’ll realise that the maximum number of bees they could therefore simultaneously study was 2048. That’s about 1/25th of a very strong colony at the peak of the season, or the number of bees covering both sides of a two-thirds full frame of sealed brood." For a system you're total controlling (in that they created their own QR-inspired format based on the size that can fit on a bee), would it not be simple to use colours to expand the range? For example just having red+white codes as well as black+white ones you double from 2048 to 4096 bees you can label. Or is there some issue that bees wouldn't like other colours, or some other problem I'm not foreseeing? And I don't know how far it could extend, but I guess even 25 shades of various colours could be different enough from each other for the camera scanning them to differentiate?

lesquivemeau 3y ago
The room was only illuminated with infrared light which means that you can’t easily discriminate color + taking and processing photos in color would probably take more time and storage
bayindirh 3y ago
Higher speed and scientific cameras tend to be black and white to increase sensitivity, speed and pixel count. Looks like the camera they used is also B&W in this case. This is why colors wouldn't be practical. Also, when you're tracking things in high-ish speeds, motion blur can shift colors because of Bayer filtering, when you're looking from that distance. Yes, demosaicing will remove the shift, but the resulting color might be different. So, B&W is the safest bet with minimum technical complexity. Addenda: Oh, I missed the IR lighting, too. Color IR is hard. These guys do it: https://kolarivision.com/articles https://kolarivision.com/articles
- swores 3y ago
  Makes sense, thanks for the explanation!
dimatura 3y ago
2D markers that use color to encode extra bits of information do exist actually, see for example http://josephdegol.com/docs/ChromaTag_ICCV17_Paper.pdf http://josephdegol.com/docs/ChromaTag_ICCV17_Paper.pdf. So it's not a bad idea. But as other commenters mentioned, for this application it might not be a good fit if the researchers are limited to using black and white cameras (understandably - there's a hardware tradeoff to capturing color information in terms of speed and resolution). More generally, color information is harder to capture robustly under varying illumination conditions, not to mention the accuracy of color printing, so these color markers haven't really caught on to my knowledge.

by swores 3y ago

lesquivemeau 3y ago

The room was only illuminated with infrared light which means that you can’t easily discriminate color + taking and processing photos in color would probably take more time and storage

bayindirh 3y ago

Higher speed and scientific cameras tend to be black and white to increase sensitivity, speed and pixel count. Looks like the camera they used is also B&W in this case. This is why colors wouldn't be practical. Also, when you're tracking things in high-ish speeds, motion blur can shift colors because of Bayer filtering, when you're looking from that distance. Yes, demosaicing will remove the shift, but the resulting color might be different. So, B&W is the safest bet with minimum technical complexity. Addenda: Oh, I missed the IR lighting, too. Color IR is hard. These guys do it: https://kolarivision.com/articles https://kolarivision.com/articles

swores 3y ago
Makes sense, thanks for the explanation!

dimatura 3y ago

2D markers that use color to encode extra bits of information do exist actually, see for example http://josephdegol.com/docs/ChromaTag_ICCV17_Paper.pdf http://josephdegol.com/docs/ChromaTag_ICCV17_Paper.pdf. So it's not a bad idea. But as other commenters mentioned, for this application it might not be a good fit if the researchers are limited to using black and white cameras (understandably - there's a hardware tradeoff to capturing color information in terms of speed and resolution). More generally, color information is harder to capture robustly under varying illumination conditions, not to mention the accuracy of color printing, so these color markers haven't really caught on to my knowledge.