4 ms·

> I think a lot of people with an employee mindset just don't want to acknowledge the existence of B Because the outsourcing threat was a thing before remote w

> I think a lot of people with an employee mindset just don't want to acknowledge the existence of B Because the outsourcing threat was a thing before remote working, remote working changes nothing to that. Employers love to bring this up on the subject of remote working but if they could outsource your work to an Indian paid 10x less, they would have done it already. Those employers are deluded if they think remote work is changing anything here. If anything it makes outsourcing of global talent even harder for them since now companies are competing globally for the best talent.

ponector 3y ago
Outsourcing jobs and salaries exploded with COVID. 100k USD annual compensation is insane for many countries. You can get best people overseas for a fraction of US costs, and with no obligation attached to you by labor laws. I'm glad this happens so I can use geographic arbitrage: work for US client but live in nice place in Europe with reasonable costs of living.
- realusername 3y ago
  I didn't see any change at all personally, I do live in Europe though. The best talents globally are going to be paid at a rough similar level outside of the big tech giants. As we go forward, the monetary gain of outsourcing is trending down, it's already less worth it than 10 years ago. Remote working plays against outsourcing in my opinion, nobody wants to be underpaid, including talents in lower cost of living areas, what was a local market became a global one. And then those countries are also developing as well, reducing the gap every year. Both effects together are very powerful against outsourcing.
  - FirmwareBurner 3y ago
    >I didn't see any change at all personally, I do live in Europe though. Depends where in Europe as there's a pretty big divide in the IT labor market in Europe that only grew bigger. Most of the remote-work and outsourcing from the US spilled mostly to Eastern Europe or tax heavens like Netherlands or Ireland or tech hubs like Berlin and Barcelona. The rest of Europe wasn't that much impacted and stagnated.
  - ponector 3y ago
    Maybe you are living in IT centers like Amsterdam or Berlin, but anywhere in south or east Europe 100k USD annual salary is almost unreachable for local employment. Best talents are not paid at the similar level globally. Even tech giants like Google have different salary for same levels in different countries inside EU. You can get x2 if you move from Warsaw to Dublin or x3 if you move to Zurich.
    - jq-r 3y ago
      > Maybe you are living in IT centers like Amsterdam or Berlin, but anywhere in south or east Europe 100k USD annual salary is almost unreachable for local employment. 100K is indeed very high for S or E Europe, but in my experience there are very very few people who actually get that kind of money. Any of those are absolutely on the top end of a bell curve. Also I'm quite certain that the quantity of those kind of workers vs remote workers in USA is less than 1%.
- dboreham 3y ago
  > and with no obligation attached to you by labor laws. I don't think this can be true. An employer has to follow labor laws pertaining to the country of residence of their employees. Typically some sort of legal entity has to be established in those countries.
  - ponector 3y ago
    Not necessarily. You can sign a contract and push all legal stuff to the employee. Employee creates an LLC or other entity and selling consultancy services to the US client. No labor law attached to this relationship.

ponector 3y ago

Outsourcing jobs and salaries exploded with COVID. 100k USD annual compensation is insane for many countries. You can get best people overseas for a fraction of US costs, and with no obligation attached to you by labor laws. I'm glad this happens so I can use geographic arbitrage: work for US client but live in nice place in Europe with reasonable costs of living.

realusername 3y ago
I didn't see any change at all personally, I do live in Europe though. The best talents globally are going to be paid at a rough similar level outside of the big tech giants. As we go forward, the monetary gain of outsourcing is trending down, it's already less worth it than 10 years ago. Remote working plays against outsourcing in my opinion, nobody wants to be underpaid, including talents in lower cost of living areas, what was a local market became a global one. And then those countries are also developing as well, reducing the gap every year. Both effects together are very powerful against outsourcing.
- FirmwareBurner 3y ago
  >I didn't see any change at all personally, I do live in Europe though. Depends where in Europe as there's a pretty big divide in the IT labor market in Europe that only grew bigger. Most of the remote-work and outsourcing from the US spilled mostly to Eastern Europe or tax heavens like Netherlands or Ireland or tech hubs like Berlin and Barcelona. The rest of Europe wasn't that much impacted and stagnated.
- ponector 3y ago
  Maybe you are living in IT centers like Amsterdam or Berlin, but anywhere in south or east Europe 100k USD annual salary is almost unreachable for local employment. Best talents are not paid at the similar level globally. Even tech giants like Google have different salary for same levels in different countries inside EU. You can get x2 if you move from Warsaw to Dublin or x3 if you move to Zurich.
  - jq-r 3y ago
    > Maybe you are living in IT centers like Amsterdam or Berlin, but anywhere in south or east Europe 100k USD annual salary is almost unreachable for local employment. 100K is indeed very high for S or E Europe, but in my experience there are very very few people who actually get that kind of money. Any of those are absolutely on the top end of a bell curve. Also I'm quite certain that the quantity of those kind of workers vs remote workers in USA is less than 1%.
dboreham 3y ago
> and with no obligation attached to you by labor laws. I don't think this can be true. An employer has to follow labor laws pertaining to the country of residence of their employees. Typically some sort of legal entity has to be established in those countries.
- ponector 3y ago
  Not necessarily. You can sign a contract and push all legal stuff to the employee. Employee creates an LLC or other entity and selling consultancy services to the US client. No labor law attached to this relationship.