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These days there is also a 16-bit GCC port to DOS (https://github.com/tkchia/gcc-ia16 https://github.com/tkchia/gcc-ia16). I never encountered one of those back

by livrem 3y ago

These days there is also a 16-bit GCC port to DOS (https://github.com/tkchia/gcc-ia16 https://github.com/tkchia/gcc-ia16). I never encountered one of those back in the day? I think the compiler itself does not run in 16-bit DOS though. Anyone interested in compiling for DOS (32-bit or 16-bit) should also check out Free Pascal.

rwmj 3y ago
There's also a port of Java / JVM to DOS which I briefly used back in the 90s to port some Java software for a client who was still using DOS and "wouldn't upgrade" (I think he was using a 386 though so I guess it used a DOS extender and wasn't truly 16 bit). I was trying to find this JVM recently and couldn't find any trace of its existence which makes me wonder if I imagined or got confused about the whole thing.
- livrem 3y ago
  I did not know of a Java port, but this reminds me there is some kind of JavaScript-based environment for DOS that I see linked now and then (think it is bundled with FreeDOS?). Probably this one: https://github.com/SuperIlu/DOjS https://github.com/SuperIlu/DOjS "DOjS is a JavaScript programming environment for systems running MS-DOS, FreeDOS or any DOS based Windows (like 95, 98, ME). It features an integrated editor, graphics & sound output, mouse/keyboard/joystick input and more" Never tried it.
- epcoa 3y ago
  Perhaps you are only confused about being confused. Called JavaPC. It cost money and I don’t think it sold well, maybe you were the only customer. There was also a DOS port of Kaffe called KaffePC. https://web.archive.org/web/20000613171121/http://www.sun.com/software/javapc/features/index.html https://web.archive.org/web/20000613171121/http://www.sun.co...
  - rwmj 3y ago
    KaffePC sounds very familiar, could be it!
    - epcoa 3y ago
      https://web.archive.org/web/20011206153449/http://www.openje.org/kaffepc/docs/en/index.html https://web.archive.org/web/20011206153449/http://www.openje... Wow I thought it was gone, but it's still available
- andrewf 3y ago
  Googling about I found http://www.delorie.com/djgpp//mail-archives/browse.cgi?p=djgpp/1998/07/26/12:00:23 http://www.delorie.com/djgpp//mail-archives/browse.cgi?p=djg... I'd imagined there might be a port of one of the PalmOS-targeted JVM-alikes (eg SuperWaba) but it doesn't look like any of them made it back to DOS. I could also imagine someone getting an OS/2 or Windows JVM running under a DOS extender.
zozbot234 3y ago
16-bit x86 support requires supporting the old segment-based real mode memory models and _near / _far / _huge pointer types, which can be very fiddly. I'm not even sure if the existing standard extension for "multiple address spaces" in C can accommodate this, or if something even more bespoke is needed. If it can be done it would be great to have in LLVM, if only for completeness sake.
- livrem 3y ago
  You do not need segment registers much if you stick to the tiny model. Here is someone compiling Rust to a 16-bit DOS COM executable: https://github.com/o8vm/rust_dos https://github.com/o8vm/rust_dos Not sure what the approach would be for them to expand that to support segments. In DJGPP there are macros to allow your protected mode application access physical real-mode addresses (like when you want to write to video RAM). I don't know if IA-16 also does something like that, or if they added far/near keywords to the language like old 16-bit C compilers did (at least the ones I used). Free Pascal has helper-functions to work with segment+offset pointer pairs, also without having to modify the language itself. I think that would work well enough in C, but I guess the old method of adding non-standard keywords was seen as slightly more convenient.
sigsev_251 3y ago
Isn't the gcc-ia16 more of a cross-compiler for embedded systems?

by livrem 3y ago

rwmj 3y ago

There's also a port of Java / JVM to DOS which I briefly used back in the 90s to port some Java software for a client who was still using DOS and "wouldn't upgrade" (I think he was using a 386 though so I guess it used a DOS extender and wasn't truly 16 bit). I was trying to find this JVM recently and couldn't find any trace of its existence which makes me wonder if I imagined or got confused about the whole thing.

livrem 3y ago
I did not know of a Java port, but this reminds me there is some kind of JavaScript-based environment for DOS that I see linked now and then (think it is bundled with FreeDOS?). Probably this one: https://github.com/SuperIlu/DOjS https://github.com/SuperIlu/DOjS "DOjS is a JavaScript programming environment for systems running MS-DOS, FreeDOS or any DOS based Windows (like 95, 98, ME). It features an integrated editor, graphics & sound output, mouse/keyboard/joystick input and more" Never tried it.
epcoa 3y ago
Perhaps you are only confused about being confused. Called JavaPC. It cost money and I don’t think it sold well, maybe you were the only customer. There was also a DOS port of Kaffe called KaffePC. https://web.archive.org/web/20000613171121/http://www.sun.com/software/javapc/features/index.html https://web.archive.org/web/20000613171121/http://www.sun.co...
- rwmj 3y ago
  KaffePC sounds very familiar, could be it!
  - epcoa 3y ago
    https://web.archive.org/web/20011206153449/http://www.openje.org/kaffepc/docs/en/index.html https://web.archive.org/web/20011206153449/http://www.openje... Wow I thought it was gone, but it's still available
andrewf 3y ago
Googling about I found http://www.delorie.com/djgpp//mail-archives/browse.cgi?p=djgpp/1998/07/26/12:00:23 http://www.delorie.com/djgpp//mail-archives/browse.cgi?p=djg... I'd imagined there might be a port of one of the PalmOS-targeted JVM-alikes (eg SuperWaba) but it doesn't look like any of them made it back to DOS. I could also imagine someone getting an OS/2 or Windows JVM running under a DOS extender.

zozbot234 3y ago

16-bit x86 support requires supporting the old segment-based real mode memory models and _near / _far / _huge pointer types, which can be very fiddly. I'm not even sure if the existing standard extension for "multiple address spaces" in C can accommodate this, or if something even more bespoke is needed. If it can be done it would be great to have in LLVM, if only for completeness sake.

livrem 3y ago
You do not need segment registers much if you stick to the tiny model. Here is someone compiling Rust to a 16-bit DOS COM executable: https://github.com/o8vm/rust_dos https://github.com/o8vm/rust_dos Not sure what the approach would be for them to expand that to support segments. In DJGPP there are macros to allow your protected mode application access physical real-mode addresses (like when you want to write to video RAM). I don't know if IA-16 also does something like that, or if they added far/near keywords to the language like old 16-bit C compilers did (at least the ones I used). Free Pascal has helper-functions to work with segment+offset pointer pairs, also without having to modify the language itself. I think that would work well enough in C, but I guess the old method of adding non-standard keywords was seen as slightly more convenient.

sigsev_251 3y ago

Isn't the gcc-ia16 more of a cross-compiler for embedded systems?