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I honestly lost you. I didn't say children in the Gaza Strip are all good. Why would anyone think that. You said antisemites. I am saying this starts with a
by YZF 3y ago
I honestly lost you. I didn't say children in the Gaza Strip are all good. Why would anyone think that.
You said antisemites. I am saying this starts with an agenda and/or ignorance. Call it whatever you want. If you have that agenda there's nothing that Israel does you're going to find acceptable. These debates tend to be futile. I'm not sure where you're coming from but most people with opinions are simply not capable of grasping this conflict or seeing past narratives.
We'll instead pretend the Hamas doesn't want the destruction of Israel and the murder of all Jews. We'll pretend it wasn't elected and it doesn't enjoy the broad support it does. We'll pretend they've never engaged in the brutal violence against civilians that they have since their inception including suicide bombings and other indiscriminate barbaric attacks. We'll pretend the Palestinian street did not consistently celebrate those attacks. We'll pretend Israel didn't withdraw from Gaza or attempt to settle the conflict. We'll pretend the Palestinians don't indoctrinate their children with hate and antisemitism. We'll pretend that most of them do not support violence as the prime method of resolving their grievances. We'll pretend Gaza hasn't been bombarding Israel on an ongoing basis since Israel's withdrawal. We'll pretend they didn't attack Israel on Oct 7th. We'll pretend Hamas didn't steal from the Gazan population to arm itself, build tunnels, wage war. We'll pretend Palestinian violence is about the occupation of 1967 despite that violence preceding 1967. We'll pretend Palestinians are willing to accept a two state solution. We'll pretend Palestinians have interest in peace despite their bombing campaign against Israeli civilians aimed at stopping the peace process. We'll pretend the world is a great place and Russia and China are champions of human rights and beacons of freedom.
We'll pretend. The situation in Gaza is 100% on the Hamas and the Palestinians.
Your so called "Iron Wall" was built as a response to terrorist attacks. There didn't use to be a wall (either around Gaza or the West Bank).
I mean if you actually have solutions then I'm all ears.
EDIT: And I think many of Israel's supporters and Israelis do care about human life on the other side of the "wall". In fact some of the Israelis that were killed and/or kidnapped in Oct 7th were involved in efforts to try and improve the quality of life for Palestinians. There were other efforts before Oct 7th to do that including more goods and more freedom of movement. But Israel's responsibility is primarily to its citizens and their safety. No different than other countries. The idea that "morality" in war somehow means that you're supposed to take more casualties and suffer more than the opposing entity that wishes to kill you just does not compute. It's coming generally from people who are lucky enough to live a life that's shielding them from these sorts of situations. Now the precise amount of force utilized and certain situations can be certainly be debated.
EDIT2: I also totally didn't follow your "7 billion" "false famine" argument. The Guardian e.g. suggests there are "pockets of famine": https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/jan/16/no-food-no-water-no-heating-famine-exists-in-gaza-say-officials https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/jan/16/no-food-no-wat... and then we have: “Gaza is on the Brink of Famine:” WFP’s Cindy McCain, January 12th. It's not like even the media, including the Guardian that is anti-Israeli, agrees to what you insist 7 billion people all know. Are people hungry. Certainly. Likely even extremely hungry. Should we try and get more aid to them. Certainly. Who is to blame? The Hamas mainly. Should Israel re-take the Gaza strip and destroy the Hamas? I think that's what Israelis expect. Once Israel completely retakes the entirety of Gaza feeding the Palestinians is going to be their responsibility. Right now most of the population is in Hamas controlled territories and as long as the Hamas keeps fighting, they should include a plan of taking care of their citizens in their war effort.
EDIT 3: or if you meant that somehow the UN represents the "will of the people" on this planet that also does not hold water. Many members of the UN are not democratic and so the voice of their citizens is suppressed. The UN does not have a proportional representation so not every world citizen has the same influence. Even for democratic countries the UN representative may not accurately reflect the majority opinion. The UN is really a forum for countries to talk to each other, it's not some source of absolute truth, and its organizations are certainly not without fault or bias.