5 ms·

I've used many engines and shipped many games, including commercial titles (I don't derive a salary from the game industry, though). I think I'd recommend some

by keyle 3y ago

I've used many engines and shipped many games, including commercial titles (I don't derive a salary from the game industry, though). I think I'd recommend something like GameMaker. I've never used it myself, but it's a self contained IDE that has everything to make decent 2D games. I'd advise against the pitfall that 3D games lure you into. That includes engines that are 3D with a 2D "mode". There is so much leaky abstraction, and the doco will be intermingled with 3D all over the place, leading to frustration and unnecessary complexity. If a game is fun in 3D, chances are you could write a game in the same vein in 2D and carry the idea and execution across. 3D games are beyond ridiculously hard to execute on by oneself (well), and require exponentially more work to complete. There is no gain, in terms of discovering the joy of making games, in diving in 3D first. If you prefer a more programming centric approach, with no IDE, I recommend Love2D. It's a joy to use, well documented. If you want a full blown low level approach, I recommend Raylib. It's fantastic and fun to use as well. But at this point, you're swimming in the deep end. Also worthy of note is PICO-8. It's a fantasy console that can be easily ported on 'open' console (such as the ambernic), making your game feel alive, being played on a hand-held console. But as for the learning experience, I found it to be more of an expert's getaway retreat, rather than a good first choice for an engine. That said there is enough material out there and small enough API, to pick it up rather quickly, all batteries included.

helboi4 3y ago
I used to use GameMaker when I was exactly 9 so I would definitely recommend it. Scratch always seemed like it was not at all made to acheive any sort of playable game but GameMaker has a low barrier to entry but can make real stuff. I would try my best to convince him that he might have to learn to make something scaled down and 2D first, and as others have suggested, talk to him about his bigger vision game and brainstorm it for the future. That was definitely what I was doing at that time - making simple stuff and really enjoying actively dreaming about the bigger stuff.
- paavope 3y ago
  I also started off around the same age with GameMaker; if it’s even half as good still as it was in the 2000s, can definitely recommend it! In the beginning all I did was fool around with the example games and tutorials, and that got me started well. Like taking a bouncy ball game, changing sprites, playing around with changing things in the existing logic and every now and then accidentally stumbling upon an interesting mechanic. The drag and drop interface is really nice for starting out; eventually I got into the scripting part and found out that I had kinda learned “coding” along the way
- kfrzcode 3y ago
  psh RPGTK for life
lloeki 3y ago
A good thing about PICO-8 is that it is a complete and closed environment, in that you do not need anything else and there's nothing to be added later on along the way. It removes a ton of moving parts squarely outside the "I want to make a game from my notes" goal, like "Oh I discovered that Lua lib" or "which text/image/sound editor can I use" or formats or whatnot.
kfrzcode 3y ago
Side thread: do you have suggestions for "validation testing" when it comes to gameplay -- not playability or fun factor, but more ... objective and mathematical? I'd like to "lint" the game, so to speak, as a formalized system in various states and I'm curious about how that is done in game dev
xtiansimon 3y ago
I had two thoughts on this Ask (I don't have children, but I do have two nieces and constantly work to inspire them to creativity in the arts and sciences. I do care). If your son is copying something else he's seen someone do, or if he's really into games and his friends also share this interest [1], then you can't beat the 2D approach. If you can find the right software, then you help him learn the software and he goes to town. He will need to adjust his ambition to what he can accomplish with the software. He already knows what he likes, and you're there to help him participate and get out of the way. ahaha My other idea is there is an educational angle to "games" as a collection of skills and knowledge: problem solving skill of breaking a goal into parts. All games are in some form about probability, and *probability modeling* animations can be really cool. (I saw this post on reddit today [2]). Modeling is a great skill or tool in your toolbox. You can go really fast with this approach, and get to an abstract but interesting outcome. Maybe something that involves using a keyboard or mouse for interactivity and probability. If he loses interest, then maybe it wasn't going to last anyway, but you planted these educational seeds which can grow later. [1]: I remember when I was his age, and I had five friends who lived six blocks from my house next to a park. We would get together to play touch football. I remember going over to this one kid's house trying to get him to come out and play football in the park, and he was showing us this 'computer' thing he had, Commodore64. I remember not having any of it, and we left. haha. That was _not_ my introduction to computers. [2]: https://www.reddit.com/r/oddlysatisfying/comments/19bgdvr/the_chance_of_probability/ https://www.reddit.com/r/oddlysatisfying/comments/19bgdvr/th...
EsportToys 3y ago
Seconded for Love2D, here's a sample of how simple it is to quickly whip up something in it: https://github.com/EsportToys/wireworld-love https://github.com/EsportToys/wireworld-love
- orthoxerox 3y ago
  I was going to write that Love2D had an unusual drawback if you wanted to teach it to a 9-year-old: lots of third-party libraries had sexualized names. However, this is outdated, and none of the recommended libraries can raise unwelcome questions with their names: https://love2d.org/wiki/Category:Libraries https://love2d.org/wiki/Category:Libraries
  - Twey 3y ago
    On that page I see entries such as: - Grease - HUMP - Lovetoys - Löve Bone - Gspöt - Möan - fLUIds To be fair, I doubt most children will question the names! And this is a small enough subset of the libraries that one can just avoid them.
montroser 3y ago
Strong +1 for PICO-8. My nine year old kid got right into it.
- livrem 3y ago
  Or the more free TIC-80. I have paid for both, but never used either enough to be able to say one or the other has any significant advantages. https://tic80.com/ https://tic80.com/
- sgu999 3y ago
  This and TIC-80 recommended bellow really feel more like a fun challenge for a programmer than a creative tool for a kid. Was it the first time your kid was exposed to any kind of programming?
  - montroser 3y ago
    True, was not the first exposure, and I still did a good lot of hand holding at the beginning.

by keyle 3y ago

helboi4 3y ago

I used to use GameMaker when I was exactly 9 so I would definitely recommend it. Scratch always seemed like it was not at all made to acheive any sort of playable game but GameMaker has a low barrier to entry but can make real stuff. I would try my best to convince him that he might have to learn to make something scaled down and 2D first, and as others have suggested, talk to him about his bigger vision game and brainstorm it for the future. That was definitely what I was doing at that time - making simple stuff and really enjoying actively dreaming about the bigger stuff.

paavope 3y ago
I also started off around the same age with GameMaker; if it’s even half as good still as it was in the 2000s, can definitely recommend it! In the beginning all I did was fool around with the example games and tutorials, and that got me started well. Like taking a bouncy ball game, changing sprites, playing around with changing things in the existing logic and every now and then accidentally stumbling upon an interesting mechanic. The drag and drop interface is really nice for starting out; eventually I got into the scripting part and found out that I had kinda learned “coding” along the way
kfrzcode 3y ago
psh RPGTK for life

lloeki 3y ago

A good thing about PICO-8 is that it is a complete and closed environment, in that you do not need anything else and there's nothing to be added later on along the way. It removes a ton of moving parts squarely outside the "I want to make a game from my notes" goal, like "Oh I discovered that Lua lib" or "which text/image/sound editor can I use" or formats or whatnot.

kfrzcode 3y ago

Side thread: do you have suggestions for "validation testing" when it comes to gameplay -- not playability or fun factor, but more ... objective and mathematical? I'd like to "lint" the game, so to speak, as a formalized system in various states and I'm curious about how that is done in game dev

xtiansimon 3y ago

I had two thoughts on this Ask (I don't have children, but I do have two nieces and constantly work to inspire them to creativity in the arts and sciences. I do care). If your son is copying something else he's seen someone do, or if he's really into games and his friends also share this interest [1], then you can't beat the 2D approach. If you can find the right software, then you help him learn the software and he goes to town. He will need to adjust his ambition to what he can accomplish with the software. He already knows what he likes, and you're there to help him participate and get out of the way. ahaha My other idea is there is an educational angle to "games" as a collection of skills and knowledge: problem solving skill of breaking a goal into parts. All games are in some form about probability, and *probability modeling* animations can be really cool. (I saw this post on reddit today [2]). Modeling is a great skill or tool in your toolbox. You can go really fast with this approach, and get to an abstract but interesting outcome. Maybe something that involves using a keyboard or mouse for interactivity and probability. If he loses interest, then maybe it wasn't going to last anyway, but you planted these educational seeds which can grow later. [1]: I remember when I was his age, and I had five friends who lived six blocks from my house next to a park. We would get together to play touch football. I remember going over to this one kid's house trying to get him to come out and play football in the park, and he was showing us this 'computer' thing he had, Commodore64. I remember not having any of it, and we left. haha. That was _not_ my introduction to computers. [2]: https://www.reddit.com/r/oddlysatisfying/comments/19bgdvr/the_chance_of_probability/ https://www.reddit.com/r/oddlysatisfying/comments/19bgdvr/th...

EsportToys 3y ago

Seconded for Love2D, here's a sample of how simple it is to quickly whip up something in it: https://github.com/EsportToys/wireworld-love https://github.com/EsportToys/wireworld-love

orthoxerox 3y ago
I was going to write that Love2D had an unusual drawback if you wanted to teach it to a 9-year-old: lots of third-party libraries had sexualized names. However, this is outdated, and none of the recommended libraries can raise unwelcome questions with their names: https://love2d.org/wiki/Category:Libraries https://love2d.org/wiki/Category:Libraries
- Twey 3y ago
  On that page I see entries such as: - Grease - HUMP - Lovetoys - Löve Bone - Gspöt - Möan - fLUIds To be fair, I doubt most children will question the names! And this is a small enough subset of the libraries that one can just avoid them.

montroser 3y ago

Strong +1 for PICO-8. My nine year old kid got right into it.

livrem 3y ago
Or the more free TIC-80. I have paid for both, but never used either enough to be able to say one or the other has any significant advantages. https://tic80.com/ https://tic80.com/
sgu999 3y ago
This and TIC-80 recommended bellow really feel more like a fun challenge for a programmer than a creative tool for a kid. Was it the first time your kid was exposed to any kind of programming?
- montroser 3y ago
  True, was not the first exposure, and I still did a good lot of hand holding at the beginning.