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Don't tracking pixels also work without cookies or Javascript though? If you have an `<img src="example.com/someTrackingPixel.gif">` on your website or app, the

by andirk 3y ago

Don't tracking pixels also work without cookies or Javascript though? If you have an `<img src="example.com/someTrackingPixel.gif">` on your website or app, the server that houses that URL gets a ton of info on you from the HTTP request header data. Less useful without the cookie but still something.

legitster 3y ago
Yeah but if they can't associate that activity with a record reliably then it's just noise.
- dylan604 3y ago
  are we really not that identifiable with all of the fingerprinting techniques and what not? the majority of people do not use VPNs to cover their tracks, and most home ISPs don't rotate their IPs that frequently that my tin foil hat suggests that for the non-techie person attempting to foil the IDing, they're IDing them.
  - legitster 3y ago
    Most browser "fingerprinting" methods have a pretty short half-life. The last assessment I read said something like half of the fingerprints were lost within 24 hours. There are some companies that advertise device fingerprinting for moderation/anti-abuse services, but I have yet to see it in any martech stack. I assume they give lots of false positives and don't distinguish between different users/devices on the same network.
    - msm_ 3y ago
      >Most browser "fingerprinting" methods have a pretty short half-life. The last assessment I read said something like half of the fingerprints were lost within 24 hours. That's absolutely not my experience. Maybe if you use some weird research-level fingerprinting technique, but most fingerprints are just regular old boring stuff - screen and browser viewport size, installed plugins and fonts, browser UA and settings, hardware/gpu quirks, etc[1]. And it doesn't have to be 100% reliable, just reliable enough to track your activity to show you some ads. [1] as a privacy conscious individual I'm fully aware just viewport size is enough to almost uniquely fingerprint me. I use my laptop screen, with sidebery extension, browser tab bar hidden by user css and sway in tabbed mode. My second computer is less unique, I "just" use sway and firefox with the minimal tab size (that for some reason is hidden must be unlocked in the about:config so it's very rarely used).
      - legitster 3y ago
        The problem is, if you are running a marketing database of millions and and millions of distinct IDs, you have to get into very esoteric fingerprint factors. Anytime you have a driver update or switch devices, you lose the connection in the data. https://medium.com/slido-dev-blog/we-collected-500-000-browser-fingerprints-here-is-what-we-found-82c319464dc9 https://medium.com/slido-dev-blog/we-collected-500-000-brows... Can it track you for a bit and show you some ads? A little bit. But compared to a tracking pixel it is not even remotely as reliable.
      - bonton89 3y ago
        Doesn't the firefox resistfingerprinting setting fuzz most of these things? I see a lot of misconceptions about it on here when people use amiunique. It will say you are unique but if you look for a historical match there aren't any because you are unique, but also different each time you show up.
        legitster 3y ago
        This gets lost a lot - just because you can prove uniqueness doesn't mean it's persistent or repeatable. Some of the "uniqueness" factors include things like number of audio devices or battery life.
- youngtaff 3y ago
  Unique etags can help with this though

by andirk 3y ago

legitster 3y ago

Yeah but if they can't associate that activity with a record reliably then it's just noise.

dylan604 3y ago
are we really not that identifiable with all of the fingerprinting techniques and what not? the majority of people do not use VPNs to cover their tracks, and most home ISPs don't rotate their IPs that frequently that my tin foil hat suggests that for the non-techie person attempting to foil the IDing, they're IDing them.
- legitster 3y ago
  Most browser "fingerprinting" methods have a pretty short half-life. The last assessment I read said something like half of the fingerprints were lost within 24 hours. There are some companies that advertise device fingerprinting for moderation/anti-abuse services, but I have yet to see it in any martech stack. I assume they give lots of false positives and don't distinguish between different users/devices on the same network.
  - msm_ 3y ago
    >Most browser "fingerprinting" methods have a pretty short half-life. The last assessment I read said something like half of the fingerprints were lost within 24 hours. That's absolutely not my experience. Maybe if you use some weird research-level fingerprinting technique, but most fingerprints are just regular old boring stuff - screen and browser viewport size, installed plugins and fonts, browser UA and settings, hardware/gpu quirks, etc[1]. And it doesn't have to be 100% reliable, just reliable enough to track your activity to show you some ads. [1] as a privacy conscious individual I'm fully aware just viewport size is enough to almost uniquely fingerprint me. I use my laptop screen, with sidebery extension, browser tab bar hidden by user css and sway in tabbed mode. My second computer is less unique, I "just" use sway and firefox with the minimal tab size (that for some reason is hidden must be unlocked in the about:config so it's very rarely used).
    - legitster 3y ago
      The problem is, if you are running a marketing database of millions and and millions of distinct IDs, you have to get into very esoteric fingerprint factors. Anytime you have a driver update or switch devices, you lose the connection in the data. https://medium.com/slido-dev-blog/we-collected-500-000-browser-fingerprints-here-is-what-we-found-82c319464dc9 https://medium.com/slido-dev-blog/we-collected-500-000-brows... Can it track you for a bit and show you some ads? A little bit. But compared to a tracking pixel it is not even remotely as reliable.
    - bonton89 3y ago
      Doesn't the firefox resistfingerprinting setting fuzz most of these things? I see a lot of misconceptions about it on here when people use amiunique. It will say you are unique but if you look for a historical match there aren't any because you are unique, but also different each time you show up.
      - legitster 3y ago
        This gets lost a lot - just because you can prove uniqueness doesn't mean it's persistent or repeatable. Some of the "uniqueness" factors include things like number of audio devices or battery life.
youngtaff 3y ago
Unique etags can help with this though