5 ms·

Let me guess: you don't have a kid that goes to a school that only posts crucial news and updates to their Facebook page and you don't have a friend group that

Let me guess: you don't have a kid that goes to a school that only posts crucial news and updates to their Facebook page and you don't have a friend group that uses a WhatsApp group to plan events. Try explaining to the average human that you have a moral objection which means you can't install the same app everyone else has, and that everyone else needs to do a lot of work to accommodate you. One of my friend groups calls me a tech vegan, and not in a good way.

deleted 3y ago
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chaosmonger7 3y ago
[dead]
gitaarik 3y ago
Well if they are your friends, you would expect that they will have respect for your choices. But maybe you are trying to convert them also, in a way they don't like it. So then they call you a tech vegan. I guess because vegans can be intense sometimes too. It's not easy to convince ignorant friends. The best way I found is to not try to change them, but do keep your own principles. They'll respect that, and might even become interested in why you have your principles. Then if they ask you can explain them.
akira2501 3y ago
My moral objections don't require other people to engage in any effort whatsoever, they require me to find alternatives. Your position seems to be that you feel bullied over your stance and you're willing to capitulate to it for the mild contrivances it offers you.
smeej 3y ago
So far, I've yet to be in a friend group that wasn't willing to switch to Signal once I explained my security concern. This includes my group of women who are spiritual directors in their 60s, not exactly a demographic you'd expect to care about E2EE. It's always been easy for me to come up with a circumstance under which something the people involved cared about might become so politically or socially condemned that being associated with it could have major repercussions. Maybe give that a shot next time you want a group to switch to something private.
- nerdbert 3y ago
  > I've yet to be in a friend group that wasn't willing to switch to Signal once I explained my security concern. I've found that works with friends, yes. But it's too much to ask in cases like a whatsapp group for parents of a school class, or for participants in an upcoming event. Things where I don't feel like I'm entering with any social credit and don't want to be a huge noodge straight off the bat.
Zelphyr 3y ago
I have kids that go to school and they don't use Facebook. They don't want to. I didn't even ask them to not have an account. (that one kind-of surprised me, honestly) My Jiu Jitsu gym heavily uses Facebook but they're smart enough to recognize that not everyone (even the people that have an account) checks it regularly so they notify the members through other means. Lately they've been telling people to be on the lookout for a text message they're planning on sending so, it sounds like they're recognizing that Facebook use is waning in a meaningful way. I haven't had a Facebook account in 12 years and haven't missed it one bit. I don't expect everyone else to do any extra work to accommodate my preferences. I didn't ask my gym to text me. The just started doing it. Time and again for the last 12 years I've found that if there was something someone needed me to know, they found a way to contact me and, if I needed to get in touch with them I found a way. Just like we did for many, many years before Facebook started.
- masfoobar 3y ago
  > My Jiu Jitsu gym heavily uses Facebook... This. I do not use facebook anymore. Yes I do have an account but I cannot remember last time I logged in. Likely over 6 months ago. Whenever I do login it is to check my jujitsu gym. Thats it! Logged in and out with.. what.. 5 mins? I had little friends list on my fb. It was ex co-workers, uni/college/school friends. I know people who would have hundreds and hundreds of "friends" on theirs, making out how difficult it would be to leave it. Truth is half of them they have never met or spoke in person. There are other means to connect with my friends. I am just tired of the current world, believing they need these social media accounts which, under the disguise of being free, have flaws in other ways as well as their mental health! It is a sad world to constantly see people on their phones, likely witnessing a teenager walking to school or work with neck injuries in 15 years time. Some people just cannot put their phone down. They are back on forums, groups, etc, within 10 minutes. Of course this is not a social media problem - but it most certainly is part of the cause. Rant Over.
- ryandrake 3y ago
  This is an excellent reply to the tired old "But nobody can possibly live without Facebook, Instagram, and WhatsApp" claim people keep making. I'm sure there are tens, maybe hundreds of thousands of people who, apparently by some great miracle, manage to live normal, healthy lives without using these apps. If businesses want to do business with you, they will find a way to be reachable outside of Meta. If your friends are actually your friends, they will communicate with you outside of Meta. If your school has a mandate to keep in touch with parents, they will find a way.

deleted 3y ago

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chaosmonger7 3y ago

[dead]

gitaarik 3y ago

Well if they are your friends, you would expect that they will have respect for your choices. But maybe you are trying to convert them also, in a way they don't like it. So then they call you a tech vegan. I guess because vegans can be intense sometimes too. It's not easy to convince ignorant friends. The best way I found is to not try to change them, but do keep your own principles. They'll respect that, and might even become interested in why you have your principles. Then if they ask you can explain them.

akira2501 3y ago

My moral objections don't require other people to engage in any effort whatsoever, they require me to find alternatives. Your position seems to be that you feel bullied over your stance and you're willing to capitulate to it for the mild contrivances it offers you.

smeej 3y ago

So far, I've yet to be in a friend group that wasn't willing to switch to Signal once I explained my security concern. This includes my group of women who are spiritual directors in their 60s, not exactly a demographic you'd expect to care about E2EE. It's always been easy for me to come up with a circumstance under which something the people involved cared about might become so politically or socially condemned that being associated with it could have major repercussions. Maybe give that a shot next time you want a group to switch to something private.

nerdbert 3y ago
> I've yet to be in a friend group that wasn't willing to switch to Signal once I explained my security concern. I've found that works with friends, yes. But it's too much to ask in cases like a whatsapp group for parents of a school class, or for participants in an upcoming event. Things where I don't feel like I'm entering with any social credit and don't want to be a huge noodge straight off the bat.

Zelphyr 3y ago

I have kids that go to school and they don't use Facebook. They don't want to. I didn't even ask them to not have an account. (that one kind-of surprised me, honestly) My Jiu Jitsu gym heavily uses Facebook but they're smart enough to recognize that not everyone (even the people that have an account) checks it regularly so they notify the members through other means. Lately they've been telling people to be on the lookout for a text message they're planning on sending so, it sounds like they're recognizing that Facebook use is waning in a meaningful way. I haven't had a Facebook account in 12 years and haven't missed it one bit. I don't expect everyone else to do any extra work to accommodate my preferences. I didn't ask my gym to text me. The just started doing it. Time and again for the last 12 years I've found that if there was something someone needed me to know, they found a way to contact me and, if I needed to get in touch with them I found a way. Just like we did for many, many years before Facebook started.

masfoobar 3y ago
> My Jiu Jitsu gym heavily uses Facebook... This. I do not use facebook anymore. Yes I do have an account but I cannot remember last time I logged in. Likely over 6 months ago. Whenever I do login it is to check my jujitsu gym. Thats it! Logged in and out with.. what.. 5 mins? I had little friends list on my fb. It was ex co-workers, uni/college/school friends. I know people who would have hundreds and hundreds of "friends" on theirs, making out how difficult it would be to leave it. Truth is half of them they have never met or spoke in person. There are other means to connect with my friends. I am just tired of the current world, believing they need these social media accounts which, under the disguise of being free, have flaws in other ways as well as their mental health! It is a sad world to constantly see people on their phones, likely witnessing a teenager walking to school or work with neck injuries in 15 years time. Some people just cannot put their phone down. They are back on forums, groups, etc, within 10 minutes. Of course this is not a social media problem - but it most certainly is part of the cause. Rant Over.
ryandrake 3y ago
This is an excellent reply to the tired old "But nobody can possibly live without Facebook, Instagram, and WhatsApp" claim people keep making. I'm sure there are tens, maybe hundreds of thousands of people who, apparently by some great miracle, manage to live normal, healthy lives without using these apps. If businesses want to do business with you, they will find a way to be reachable outside of Meta. If your friends are actually your friends, they will communicate with you outside of Meta. If your school has a mandate to keep in touch with parents, they will find a way.