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Let him?! Like don't make this too complicated. My dad, when I wanted to learn programming literally just gave me some "starter BASIC program" and let me find

Let him?! Like don't make this too complicated. My dad, when I wanted to learn programming literally just gave me some "starter BASIC program" and let me find out things from there. No internet, nothing. Oh and a set of like a gazillion 3.5" floppies with Borland C and a book accompanying it. I made a super cool looking password entry screen with ascii art that was started by autoexec.bat before showing the start menu. Super secure lol (i.e. not at all but super cool and fooled all the other kids). I'd recommend Roblox for him to start if he really wants to make a game. Zero math required unless he wants to do those parts. Lots of help online, in some cases probably from kids his age actually. And you can but don't have to program things properly instead of just using the UI. Also, you didn't mention what his vision is. So we can't really say if 'let him loose' is likely just gonna frustrate him or what. That said, one of the best learning experiences I had was when I broke the computer completely. I was playing around with those autoexec.bat settings and suddenly I could not get it to start at all anymore. My parents were gone for the evening. I had I think like 3 or 4 hours until they'd come back and I definitely didn't want to tell my dad that "I broke the computer". I tinkered and tried things for hours and like minutes before they came back I got it to boot into a DOS prompt again. I was so proud. My dad never knew. R.I.P.

I_Am_Nous 3y ago
I second Roblox. They now have "magic generative AI" which can generate Lua code from comments. You can use it as a tool to learn as you go :)
welfare 3y ago
His vision is a “survival zombie game where you have to find and repair cars to escape the zombies” Yeah I know, that’s how I started as well. Got some old 8086 and zero instructions on how to use it. But he’s not curious in the same way I was, maybe it’s the time right now. Kids expect immediate gratification, or maybe he needs a bit of a push. I looked at Roblox studio, that looks promising. Thanks!
- tharkun__ 3y ago
  Yeah totally see the gratification bit. You can help him of course and try to steer him towards incremental improvement. With Roblox he will definitely be able to just use pre-made (of not super awesome looking) cars and zombies. In fact the Roblox tutorials come with a pretty good looking Zombie actually. With animations and all. They also have some official item collections which included high and low poly stuff. You can help him put together a simple version in a couple days tops probably. Like something that's literally just car that won't drive, some zombies that walk towards the player location if in range, he has to long press to "repair" the car and escape. First version done. Then expand from there, like have an actual "broken car" model vs "working car". Start adding houses and streets and an "escape zone" you gotta reach etc. That said, don't underestimate his curiosity. I thought my kids wouldn't get past that either and now I sometimes glimpse or they show me what they've been working on. I just showed them some 3D software like Blender, they got a tablet and a cheap graphics tablet for the PC. And I do see them doodling around with it, trying things. Just like we did. But with cooler tech. Just today actually I told one of them when they were on the tablet how I watched Star Trek as a kid and always wanted to "live long enough that I'd have something like the P.A.D.D.". And look here we've had iPads for "forever" now and the kids think it's normal to have.
  - thunderrabbit 3y ago
    Thank you for simplifying the "repair" process to long press. That's amazingly helpful for me to think about ways to create a minimum viable product.
    - tharkun__ 3y ago
      And the fun thing: it's literally just a property of the standard "action" in Roblox. So super simple even if he doesn't use Lua but just the UI. I.e. instant gratification. And he can change the number and Roblox will automatically show a progress indicator for the "action". (yes I've done some developing coz the kids wanted me to build a game for them. "daddy, daddy, I found this pink cow! You gotta put it in!" - I never finished coz it got boring but it was a lot of fun). He can blow up (just super size) the models and maybe find some "motor" asset someone made and published to actually put under the hood or just next to the car, which he needs to repair too. A blown out tire? Go find rubber or a new tire? Lug it back to the car first. A jerry can asset someone made that he needs to find at a gas station (maybe someone already made that asset) to fill up the car. Like "if Jerry can is in inventory - inventory is already pre built in roblox just use it - then long pressing the action key will fill up the car". Find a "lead pipe" asset to use as a weapon. To begin with use one of the premade with animations and everything swords. The learn how to make your own. Since it's all for learning nobody has to care about asset licensing or money. When he does, it's a teachable moment.
Lariscus 3y ago
Word of warning about Roblox, it is home to child labor exploitation, gambling and chat rooms rife with predatory behavior. They allow young game developers to sell their creations and take a 70% cut of their revenue; that is if they let you cash out at all. I recommend caution and at the very least be involved in what your children are doing in Roblox.
- tharkun__ 3y ago
  Seconded on the money part. I'd treat it as just a game engine to scratch the itch of learning and steer them towards actual programming in Lua. Then, even if the language would be different, they can transfer to a proper game engine like Unreal. But publishing the game in Roblox for real could still be a good thing (or not). Just don't expect to "get rich fast". It can teach that even you have a cool game, nobody is gonna find it and you'd have to stand out. In the end it's a bit like YouTube. Same exploitative relationship. You might make money. Most won't. Many will feel lots of pressure for no reward. And even with reward the pressure might become too much.

I_Am_Nous 3y ago

I second Roblox. They now have "magic generative AI" which can generate Lua code from comments. You can use it as a tool to learn as you go :)

welfare 3y ago

His vision is a “survival zombie game where you have to find and repair cars to escape the zombies” Yeah I know, that’s how I started as well. Got some old 8086 and zero instructions on how to use it. But he’s not curious in the same way I was, maybe it’s the time right now. Kids expect immediate gratification, or maybe he needs a bit of a push. I looked at Roblox studio, that looks promising. Thanks!

tharkun__ 3y ago
Yeah totally see the gratification bit. You can help him of course and try to steer him towards incremental improvement. With Roblox he will definitely be able to just use pre-made (of not super awesome looking) cars and zombies. In fact the Roblox tutorials come with a pretty good looking Zombie actually. With animations and all. They also have some official item collections which included high and low poly stuff. You can help him put together a simple version in a couple days tops probably. Like something that's literally just car that won't drive, some zombies that walk towards the player location if in range, he has to long press to "repair" the car and escape. First version done. Then expand from there, like have an actual "broken car" model vs "working car". Start adding houses and streets and an "escape zone" you gotta reach etc. That said, don't underestimate his curiosity. I thought my kids wouldn't get past that either and now I sometimes glimpse or they show me what they've been working on. I just showed them some 3D software like Blender, they got a tablet and a cheap graphics tablet for the PC. And I do see them doodling around with it, trying things. Just like we did. But with cooler tech. Just today actually I told one of them when they were on the tablet how I watched Star Trek as a kid and always wanted to "live long enough that I'd have something like the P.A.D.D.". And look here we've had iPads for "forever" now and the kids think it's normal to have.
- thunderrabbit 3y ago
  Thank you for simplifying the "repair" process to long press. That's amazingly helpful for me to think about ways to create a minimum viable product.
  - tharkun__ 3y ago
    And the fun thing: it's literally just a property of the standard "action" in Roblox. So super simple even if he doesn't use Lua but just the UI. I.e. instant gratification. And he can change the number and Roblox will automatically show a progress indicator for the "action". (yes I've done some developing coz the kids wanted me to build a game for them. "daddy, daddy, I found this pink cow! You gotta put it in!" - I never finished coz it got boring but it was a lot of fun). He can blow up (just super size) the models and maybe find some "motor" asset someone made and published to actually put under the hood or just next to the car, which he needs to repair too. A blown out tire? Go find rubber or a new tire? Lug it back to the car first. A jerry can asset someone made that he needs to find at a gas station (maybe someone already made that asset) to fill up the car. Like "if Jerry can is in inventory - inventory is already pre built in roblox just use it - then long pressing the action key will fill up the car". Find a "lead pipe" asset to use as a weapon. To begin with use one of the premade with animations and everything swords. The learn how to make your own. Since it's all for learning nobody has to care about asset licensing or money. When he does, it's a teachable moment.

Lariscus 3y ago

Word of warning about Roblox, it is home to child labor exploitation, gambling and chat rooms rife with predatory behavior. They allow young game developers to sell their creations and take a 70% cut of their revenue; that is if they let you cash out at all. I recommend caution and at the very least be involved in what your children are doing in Roblox.

tharkun__ 3y ago
Seconded on the money part. I'd treat it as just a game engine to scratch the itch of learning and steer them towards actual programming in Lua. Then, even if the language would be different, they can transfer to a proper game engine like Unreal. But publishing the game in Roblox for real could still be a good thing (or not). Just don't expect to "get rich fast". It can teach that even you have a cool game, nobody is gonna find it and you'd have to stand out. In the end it's a bit like YouTube. Same exploitative relationship. You might make money. Most won't. Many will feel lots of pressure for no reward. And even with reward the pressure might become too much.