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It's not a technology, is it? It's absolutely a social construct, a deeply embedded social convention. The bills in my wallet are a technology only if the words

It's not a technology, is it? It's absolutely a social construct, a deeply embedded social convention. The bills in my wallet are a technology only if the words printed on the side of a soda can are also technology. The bits on some storage somewhere denoting my bank balance likewise.

ajdjujjeizncaaa 3y ago
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detourdog 3y ago
I think the can that word are printed on is technology the same way a currency that may have writing on it is a technology. The words dontt make the money valuable.
- quantified 3y ago
  Right, only a shared belief in its value and provenance makes it money.
FredPret 3y ago
Representing something abstract like value with physical objects like shells, gold, paper, or bits is absolutely a technology. It has caught on to the point where it's completely assumed, like internet connectivity, but it's not a "social construct" like whatever's in fashion this year. It's part of our technological infrastructure; it's not something that's going to evaporate next year. None of this means OP has grounds to argue for economic totalitarianism.
- haynow 3y ago
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- quantified 3y ago
  Social construct has zero to do with current fashion. Marriage is a social construct and it's pretty solidly entrenched.
  - FredPret 3y ago
    Marriage, language, laws, trade; these are things people do. Money is a technology people use. It has a literal physical presence that was invented and improved over time from rocks to bits. I will concede that it's the wide acceptance of money that gives it it's value. But the same is true for the wifi protocol and a billion other things that are also not a social construct. Either way doesn't matter as far as OP's original argument.
    - quantified 3y ago
      So here is the interesting part. The physical aspect of money is really just a static representation: a coin or bill, a few coordinated bits. Producing those involves technology, moving them around also. How do you distinguish trade that involves money from the money itself? What is it about money that is a technology? The fact that people give it a certain status is inherently social. It has no utility except in transfer from one person to another, giving it to your pet fish is meaningless to the fish and burning it for fuel utilizes it quite differently.
roenxi 3y ago
It is a bit of an edge case, but "technology" literally just means "application of conceptual knowledge for achieving practical goals". Economists work to formalise the technologies used, but they are all social constructs. Armies stand out as a social technology. EDIT ^W^W^W^W my bad, that link was irrelevant.
- quantified 3y ago
  That's the wikipedia definition, other sources tend to lean into application of science, for example Merriam-Webster: a : the practical application of knowledge especially in a particular area : ENGINEERING sense 2 medical technology b : a capability given by the practical application of knowledge a car's fuel-saving technology 2 : a manner of accomplishing a task especially using technical processes, methods, or knowledge new technologies for information storage 3 : the specialized aspects of a particular field of endeavor If its as vague as "applied concepts for practical goals", Catholicism is also technology.
  - roenxi 3y ago
    > If its as vague as "applied concepts for practical goals", Catholicism is also technology. Yes. A very effective one. Up there with the wheel for staying power; I imagine the Catholics are proud of what they've built.
    - quantified 3y ago
      In which case social constructs are technology too.
      - roenxi 3y ago
        Yes, exactly.
AnimalMuppet 3y ago
It's a technology in the sense that the financial system has been very carefully built, over centuries, in order to not collapse, and to make transactions easy and efficient. It's easily as complicated and sophisticated as any mechanical device ever created by the human race. It basically lets us create modern society. So when the OP is flirting with arguing for tearing it down, there are three alternatives: 1) reform but stop short of tearing it down (legislation has done this several times before), 2) propose an alternative system that has a realistic way to preserve modern life, or 3) admit that you're going to destroy modern life in order to attack wealth inequality. For 3), you're going to find very few people who are willing to go along with you. For 2), if you can't convince us that your plan is realistic, we're going to assume that you really are at 3). As for 1), you're going to have to get it through Congress. It's been done, as I said, but usually after a major crisis. You probably don't have the urgency in voters' minds to drive it now, and Congress isn't great at passing anything right now. (Am I the only one that thinks that "can't pass a budget, which is the basic job" should mean "fire them all"?)
- quantified 3y ago
  I'm not at all in favor of tearing it down. Just looking at embedded conventions as embedded conventions.
corimaith 3y ago
Money is a social construct but the exact nature of it is up to debate. One's theories on what they can do with it may not match up with reality when put into practice.

ajdjujjeizncaaa 3y ago

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detourdog 3y ago

I think the can that word are printed on is technology the same way a currency that may have writing on it is a technology. The words dontt make the money valuable.

quantified 3y ago
Right, only a shared belief in its value and provenance makes it money.

FredPret 3y ago

Representing something abstract like value with physical objects like shells, gold, paper, or bits is absolutely a technology. It has caught on to the point where it's completely assumed, like internet connectivity, but it's not a "social construct" like whatever's in fashion this year. It's part of our technological infrastructure; it's not something that's going to evaporate next year. None of this means OP has grounds to argue for economic totalitarianism.

haynow 3y ago
[dead]
quantified 3y ago
Social construct has zero to do with current fashion. Marriage is a social construct and it's pretty solidly entrenched.
- FredPret 3y ago
  Marriage, language, laws, trade; these are things people do. Money is a technology people use. It has a literal physical presence that was invented and improved over time from rocks to bits. I will concede that it's the wide acceptance of money that gives it it's value. But the same is true for the wifi protocol and a billion other things that are also not a social construct. Either way doesn't matter as far as OP's original argument.
  - quantified 3y ago
    So here is the interesting part. The physical aspect of money is really just a static representation: a coin or bill, a few coordinated bits. Producing those involves technology, moving them around also. How do you distinguish trade that involves money from the money itself? What is it about money that is a technology? The fact that people give it a certain status is inherently social. It has no utility except in transfer from one person to another, giving it to your pet fish is meaningless to the fish and burning it for fuel utilizes it quite differently.

roenxi 3y ago

It is a bit of an edge case, but "technology" literally just means "application of conceptual knowledge for achieving practical goals". Economists work to formalise the technologies used, but they are all social constructs. Armies stand out as a social technology. EDIT ^W^W^W^W my bad, that link was irrelevant.

quantified 3y ago
That's the wikipedia definition, other sources tend to lean into application of science, for example Merriam-Webster: a : the practical application of knowledge especially in a particular area : ENGINEERING sense 2 medical technology b : a capability given by the practical application of knowledge a car's fuel-saving technology 2 : a manner of accomplishing a task especially using technical processes, methods, or knowledge new technologies for information storage 3 : the specialized aspects of a particular field of endeavor If its as vague as "applied concepts for practical goals", Catholicism is also technology.
- roenxi 3y ago
  > If its as vague as "applied concepts for practical goals", Catholicism is also technology. Yes. A very effective one. Up there with the wheel for staying power; I imagine the Catholics are proud of what they've built.
  - quantified 3y ago
    In which case social constructs are technology too.
    - roenxi 3y ago
      Yes, exactly.

AnimalMuppet 3y ago

It's a technology in the sense that the financial system has been very carefully built, over centuries, in order to not collapse, and to make transactions easy and efficient. It's easily as complicated and sophisticated as any mechanical device ever created by the human race. It basically lets us create modern society. So when the OP is flirting with arguing for tearing it down, there are three alternatives: 1) reform but stop short of tearing it down (legislation has done this several times before), 2) propose an alternative system that has a realistic way to preserve modern life, or 3) admit that you're going to destroy modern life in order to attack wealth inequality. For 3), you're going to find very few people who are willing to go along with you. For 2), if you can't convince us that your plan is realistic, we're going to assume that you really are at 3). As for 1), you're going to have to get it through Congress. It's been done, as I said, but usually after a major crisis. You probably don't have the urgency in voters' minds to drive it now, and Congress isn't great at passing anything right now. (Am I the only one that thinks that "can't pass a budget, which is the basic job" should mean "fire them all"?)

quantified 3y ago
I'm not at all in favor of tearing it down. Just looking at embedded conventions as embedded conventions.

corimaith 3y ago

Money is a social construct but the exact nature of it is up to debate. One's theories on what they can do with it may not match up with reality when put into practice.