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Cerne Abbas giant is Hercules and was army meeting point, say historians
- kitd 3y agoThe figure may even have been cut as a motivational act by the mustering army itself. Not so far away are the Fovant monumental badges, cut for similar reasons by WW1 soldiers preparing to go to France. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fovant_Badges https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fovant_Badges
- matthewfelgate 3y agoWow thanks for sharing these, I had never heard of these!
- jameshart 3y agoThanks for sharing that link. Today I learned of the “Post Office Rifles”, which sound like something from a Terry Pratchett novel: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post_Office_Rifles https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post_Office_Rifles The fact they’re commemorated in the Wiltshire chalk makes it even more Pratchettian. Also the “Bulford Kiwi” - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bulford_Kiwi https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bulford_Kiwi “one of the few hill figures in Wiltshire to be neither a white horse nor a military badge”
- mrob 3y ago>The fact they’re commemorated in the Wiltshire chalk makes it even more Pratchettian. To explain, Pratchett lived in Broad Chalke, only a few miles from Fovant. As somebody curious about many things, and living so close to them, I think it's likely that he saw the Fovant Badges.
- thaumasiotes 3y agoThe only argument given that the figure is Hercules is "clearly, it's Hercules". I am not making this up. Why even bother writing the article?
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- thih9 3y agoNote that they also mention the missing mantle. The paper linked from the article elaborates, compares it to other representations of Hercules holding a mantle in his left hand.
- thaumasiotes 3y agoThe paper says that because the giant has a club, it is generally accepted to be Hercules. It notes that an image of Hercules should also have a lion skin, but -- despite extensive discussion of LIDAR scans showing what the image would have been in the past -- presents no evidence that the giant ever had one; it just says that, because the giant is obviously Hercules, there must have originally been a lion skin too.
- darth_avocado 3y agoThe club isn't a euphemism is it?
- Luc 3y agoHeracles holding a club and a lion's skin is a bit of a trope. Do a quick search and you'll find dozens of etchings and statues. https://www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/372746 https://www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/372746 https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Lansdowne_Herakles_Getty_Museum.jpg https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Lansdowne_Herakles_G... Wikipedia has an illustration of the cloak outline but the reference is to a book I don't have access to.
- krisoft 3y ago> Heracles holding a club and a lion's skin is a bit of a trope. But this one does not have a lion’s skin. Maybe a man with a club is just a man with a club. This kind of thinking would lead a historian living in 3k to identify a picture of an astronaut as the mythical hero of Ironman.
- thih9 3y ago> Cutting a chalk figure of Hercules as fighting warrior, with club poised to strike, would have served as a fine rallying point (...) Are we really going to describe this figure with no mention of the giant erection? Talk about an elephant in the room. Especially since it's unclear if the ancient warriors actually fought like this[1]. Plus, the phallus was not present in the original drawing according to the 2020 lidar scans[2]: "From a review of historical depictions, the Giant's current large erection has been identified as the result of merging a circle representing his navel with a smaller penis during a 1908 re-cut: the navel still appears on a late 1890s picture postcard. Lidar scans conducted as part of the 2020 survey programme have concluded that the phallus was added much later than the bulk of the figure, which was probably originally clothed." [1]: https://old.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/6mwsbg/did_the_gauls_actually_go_into_battle_naked_and/ https://old.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/6mwsbg/did_t... [2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cerne_Abbas_Giant https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cerne_Abbas_Giant
- taneq 3y agoTurns out humans have been drawing dicks on things basically forever.
- debo_ 3y agoLong before we had dictation, we had dicktation
- tokai 3y ago[flagged]
- jessekv 3y agohttps://xkcd.com/1020/ https://xkcd.com/1020/
- andrewflnr 3y agoI don't get this one. It's way off center (more so than the drawing here), much more like a scabbard than a dong.
- hello2357 3y ago[dead]
- varjag 3y agoThen research led by the National Trust that examined sediment and snail shells came to the surprising conclusion that the giant was late Saxon, possibly 10th century. Just because the art is crap doesn't mean it's neolithic!
- cjs_ac 3y agoIf you need more dirty puns about the figure, the Metro has you covered. https://metro.co.uk/2019/08/29/volunteers-polish-giants-erection-hand-10648785/ https://metro.co.uk/2019/08/29/volunteers-polish-giants-erec...
- dmurray 3y agoIf you missed some of the less obvious ones or are just interested in helping with the restoration, the National Trust is always looking for new members.
- Angostura 3y agoOutstanding!
- yazzku 3y agoThey polished the erection...by hand? Tell me more about the precise logistics of that operation.
- adolph 3y agoI think it is an Eastern European thing in general, not just Poland.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- danparsonson 3y agoCoincidentally I just finished listening to Dan Carlin's two-part "Hardcore History" podcast about the Vikings, Twilight of the Aesir - highly recommended and currently available for free (via podcast apps or https://www.dancarlin.com/hardcore-history-series/ https://www.dancarlin.com/hardcore-history-series/).
- debo_ 3y agoI took a senior classics course on the ancient near East when I was in university. (It had no prereqs, and I wanted to do something that actually felt like university.) It was fascinating. One anecdote I remember is that Hercules was potentially derived from stories of a Phoenician hero who walked along the shore and discovered that the molluscs that crushed beneath his feet created a purple hue. He was renowned for turning this stuff into purple dye that came to signify royalty. Anyways, I've never bothered looking this up further. I just loved the potential origins of things. (Another interesting one -- Jesus being in many ways derived from Baal. Given that our professor was also a priest, I thought he was surprisingly open to teaching this stuff.)
- digging 3y ago> One anecdote I remember is that Hercules was potentially derived from stories of a Phoenician hero who walked along the shore and discovered that the molluscs that crushed beneath his feet created a purple hue. He was renowned for turning this stuff into purple dye that came to signify royalty. Any more info about this? It's not clear how the two figures are related from this description, but I wouldn't be surprised if Hercules was derived from an earlier Phoenician myth. (Or did Hercules have a purple cloak I'm unaware of?)
- pvaldes 3y ago> a Phoenician hero walked along the shore and discovered that the molluscs that crushed beneath his feet created a purple hue This can be taken littorally, but not literally. Is clearly speech beautification. In ancient times it was probably understood by the public that the narrator talks about a task that is impossible (or really difficult at least). Is clearly a metaphor to stress that a character has heroic qualities like strength and, in particular, a high tolerance to pain.
- debo_ 3y agoI didn't intend for it to be interpreted literally. I wrote "derived from stories of."
- bitwize 3y agoAnd if you glide to the right point, you'll find a Dragon's Tear that exposes a bit more backstory.
- helsinkiandrew 3y agoWhy is the journal of the Medieval Academy of America called “Speculum”: A device used to “examine hollow openings in your body, like your vagina, anus, ears or nostrils” EDIT: oh, perhaps the medieval genre of speculum literature: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speculum_literature https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speculum_literature
- kemayo 3y agoIt's a word with multiple meanings, though admittedly the one you mention is the most common modern one. Presumably, given that it's a journal and about medieval studies, it's a reference to speculum literature: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speculum_literature https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speculum_literature
- thih9 3y agoI guess we can only speculate.
- mellosouls 3y agoYes, it is related to the usage there (and is listed on that page). But here's the definitive answer from the publication itself: "SPECULUM, this mirror to which we find it appropriate to give a Latin name, suggests the multitudinous mirrors in which the people of the Middle Ages liked to gaze at themselves and other folk — mirrors of history and doctrine and morals, mirrors of princes and lovers and fools." From the preface to the first volume, linked at the top here: https://www.medievalacademy.org/page/MAAHistory https://www.medievalacademy.org/page/MAAHistory Ps: word origin: from Latin: mirror, from specere to look at https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/speculum https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/speculu...
- nsajko 3y agoThe paper is open-access: https://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/10.1086/727992 https://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/10.1086/727992
- Jun8 3y agoI’ve always found the name of the village Cerne Abbas, after which the giant is named, interesting: “abbas” is a common Arabic name, maybe an early Arabic warrior fought with the Celts? (No, but this would be a cool story) Turns out abbas means “abbot” in Latin, derived from Greek in Septuagint, which in turn is from Aramaic abba, meaning “my father”. Arabic abbas means “lion”, from عَبَسَ (ʕabasa, “to frown”): https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/Abbas#:~:text=From%20Arabic%20عَبَّاس%E2%80%8E%20(%CA%95abbās,sura%20of%20the%20Qur'an https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/Abbas#:~:text=From%20Arabic....
- antman123 3y agofriendly reminder Aramaic is not a dead language (at least not yet -- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aramaic https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aramaic)
- gerdesj 3y agoThere is an awful lot of the usual "I think that ...", which is fine, but probably bollocks. The big lad is there on the hill near to Cerne, why or when is largely immaterial but it is there. Unless or until some actual datable evidence becomes apparent then everything is speculation. I personally think it is medieval or later in origin but I would love to be wrong and it to be say pre Roman Britain, so roughly before Christ (BC) or whatever you call 2024 years ago.
- biorach 3y ago> until some actual datable evidence becomes apparent then everything is speculation. The 10th century date is supported by evidence https://www.theguardian.com/science/2021/may/12/cerne-giant-in-dorset-dates-from-anglo-saxon-times-analysis-suggests https://www.theguardian.com/science/2021/may/12/cerne-giant-...