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To be fair… Russia is fighting a proxy war with the US via Ukraine. Without US intelligence, Ukraine may be on a very bad spot.

madwebness 3y ago
While any war, as Hemingway wrote "no matter how necessary or justified - is still a crime", without US, even the events in 2008 and 2013 would not take place simply because they would not had been necessary due to Ukraine staying in the Russia's sphere of influence. This is an unwinnable war for Ukraine. It is bad for Russia and certainly puts a dark spot on its history, but if there is at least one large and powerful country without dark spots in its history, please tell me which one it is. Human history is catalogue of crime.
bilbo0s 3y ago
This is what it is to be in a multipolar world though. I agree with your implication. The military forces of Russia are not paper tigers. Don't believe the hype. But at the same time, you don't want to fight proxy wars? Ok. Great. Then don't screw with other nations. If they hadn't messed with Ukraine, they wouldn't be fighting a proxy war. The system works, again, because each of the major powers are comfortably confident in their ability to destroy the other 3. There is therefore, nothing to stop us from fighting a proxy war with Russia, because Russia will never use hard power to do anything about it. Unless Russia is suicidal, and they aren't, they will not escalate to a direct conflict with us.
- madwebness 3y ago
  No one is suicidal, but escalation don't always work according to logic. It's people making decisions, and people are emotional. Another thing to consider is, if you're the one up top, perhaps pressing the red button and living in a nice warm bunker with staff serving you is much better than being ousted, voted out or accused of corruption and facing the probability of going to jail (depending on the country). So I wouldn't be so sure we're immune to the global war just yet.
- Tommstein 3y ago
  > The military forces of Russia are not paper tigers. If there's anything that their gloriously failed sneak attack on Ukraine has shown us, it's that yes, yes they are. Imagine if the most advanced weaponry they were facing wasn't small amounts of slow-coming ancient hand-me-downs employed by people who have barely even trained to use them . . . .
dkjaudyeqooe 3y ago
Russia is fighting a proxy war with its foot. Ukraine would of course be toast without arms and intelligence from the West, but neither have any interest in starting or perpetuating the war. Russia's folly is convenient for the West though.
- Sabinus 3y ago
  >neither have any interest in starting or perpetuating the war I don't think this is strictly true. Cutting Russia of from unimpeded Black Sea access and draining their resources in a (for America, cheap) proxy war are both in Western interests.

madwebness 3y ago

While any war, as Hemingway wrote "no matter how necessary or justified - is still a crime", without US, even the events in 2008 and 2013 would not take place simply because they would not had been necessary due to Ukraine staying in the Russia's sphere of influence. This is an unwinnable war for Ukraine. It is bad for Russia and certainly puts a dark spot on its history, but if there is at least one large and powerful country without dark spots in its history, please tell me which one it is. Human history is catalogue of crime.

bilbo0s 3y ago

This is what it is to be in a multipolar world though. I agree with your implication. The military forces of Russia are not paper tigers. Don't believe the hype. But at the same time, you don't want to fight proxy wars? Ok. Great. Then don't screw with other nations. If they hadn't messed with Ukraine, they wouldn't be fighting a proxy war. The system works, again, because each of the major powers are comfortably confident in their ability to destroy the other 3. There is therefore, nothing to stop us from fighting a proxy war with Russia, because Russia will never use hard power to do anything about it. Unless Russia is suicidal, and they aren't, they will not escalate to a direct conflict with us.

madwebness 3y ago
No one is suicidal, but escalation don't always work according to logic. It's people making decisions, and people are emotional. Another thing to consider is, if you're the one up top, perhaps pressing the red button and living in a nice warm bunker with staff serving you is much better than being ousted, voted out or accused of corruption and facing the probability of going to jail (depending on the country). So I wouldn't be so sure we're immune to the global war just yet.
Tommstein 3y ago
> The military forces of Russia are not paper tigers. If there's anything that their gloriously failed sneak attack on Ukraine has shown us, it's that yes, yes they are. Imagine if the most advanced weaponry they were facing wasn't small amounts of slow-coming ancient hand-me-downs employed by people who have barely even trained to use them . . . .

dkjaudyeqooe 3y ago

Russia is fighting a proxy war with its foot. Ukraine would of course be toast without arms and intelligence from the West, but neither have any interest in starting or perpetuating the war. Russia's folly is convenient for the West though.

Sabinus 3y ago
>neither have any interest in starting or perpetuating the war I don't think this is strictly true. Cutting Russia of from unimpeded Black Sea access and draining their resources in a (for America, cheap) proxy war are both in Western interests.