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And this is the crux of the matter, and why I feel young people are becoming increasingly nihilistic. They are realizing that they are increasingly powerless a

And this is the crux of the matter, and why I feel young people are becoming increasingly nihilistic. They are realizing that they are increasingly powerless and unable to drive change. There are major problems out there in the world, and they can't be solved unless entities and individuals who have a vested interest in maintaining the status quo actually change their ways. "Be the change you want to see in the world" is increasingly more and more meaningless each day.

pharmakom 3y ago
This is why I’m sympathetic to direct action. What on earth else can young people do? But boomers can only think about being made late for work
- JumpCrisscross 3y ago
  > boomers can only think about being made late for work They also show up to vote, show up at town halls and call their electeds. It's only recently, largely due to Gen Z and newly-engaged Millenials, that the tide is turning [1]. [1] https://circle.tufts.edu/latest-research/gen-z-voted-higher-rate-2022-previous-generations-their-first-midterm-election https://circle.tufts.edu/latest-research/gen-z-voted-higher-...
JumpCrisscross 3y ago
> "Be the change you want to see in the world" is increasingly more and more meaningless each day It's a good start. But individual action has always been meaningless. What matters is collective action. Ironically, repeating the meme of widespread nihilism (which isn't true, it's a vocal minority) degrades that capability.
- basil-rash 3y ago
  What actually matters are the actions of a small handful of elites that hold all the cards. How many people got together to decide to promote wars in the middle east and Ukraine? How much environmental destruction have they caused? Same goes for domestic water. 2 people own a single CA business that uses more water than all of LA. But angelenos are told it’s on them to take shorter showers to save water.
  - JumpCrisscross 3y ago
    > How many people got together to decide to promote wars in the middle east and Ukraine? Lots of people. Certainly for Ukraine; it's an issue electeds are called about repeatedly. (I've called on it.) > angelenos are told it’s on them to take shorter showers to save water And then don't. California's water shortage is a political choice by, ultimately, its voters.
    - basil-rash 3y ago
      Most citizens don’t support the war, yet it goes on. Calling is pillow talk designed to appease the people into thinking they matter. And what do the showers matter when two people have unilateral control over more water than the entire city? The voters have no power, they are just convenient scapegoats. Not to mention all the water we let drain into the ocean every year, just to have Gavin yell about the reservoirs being low the next, while he laughs all the way to the polling office, accompanied by the two senators he unconstitutionally appointed… “voters have power”. It’d be funny if it weren’t so terrible.
      - JumpCrisscross 3y ago
        > Most citizens don’t support the war Recent shift and highly partisan [1]. Guess what's hitting the rocks in the House [2]. > Calling is pillow talk designed to appease the people into thinking they matter How many electeds do you know? Senior staffers? Because every one I know, on both sides of the political aisle, uses calls and letters as a proxy for whether their voters care about something. Particularly if it's a novel issue, i.e. without polling. Someone willing to call or write may also create a ruckus, or join a primary challenger's campaign. They're likely a regular voter, including in primaries. And if won over they might drive turnout over the issue. > voters have no power, they are just convenient scapegoats Come on, those people have control through the law. [1] https://news.gallup.com/poll/513680/american-views-ukraine-war-charts.aspx https://news.gallup.com/poll/513680/american-views-ukraine-w... [2] https://www.nytimes.com/2024/01/17/us/politics/johnson-biden-border-ukraine.html https://www.nytimes.com/2024/01/17/us/politics/johnson-biden...
      - 3y ago
- digging 3y ago
  > But individual action has always been meaningless. What matters is collective action. I think this actually misses the key point. 1. Every person only has control of their individual action, and has to find a way for it to be meaningful. 2. Individual action can't meaningfully address a problem like plastic pollution by acting against it directly. 3. The individual actions which do matter are mostly those which drive collective action. That means individuals need to learn to organize and do the work of organizing. It's hard work though. 4. People should be trained not to agonize over every individual food choice, or to rage at home about how bad things are, but to organize. Learn to do it, learn to teach it, and do the work.
  - JumpCrisscross 3y ago
    > individual actions which do matter are mostly those which drive collective action. That means individuals need to learn to organize and do the work of organizing. It's hard work though 100% agree. And look, if you’re trying to get single-use plastics banned, you shouldn’t be using them. But your Nos. 3 and 4 should be pinned to every discussion of this kind.
marssaxman 3y ago
Some of us middle-aged people are having that experience, too; years of trying to "be the change you want to see in the world" with no visible result tends to leave one feeling rather tired.

pharmakom 3y ago

This is why I’m sympathetic to direct action. What on earth else can young people do? But boomers can only think about being made late for work

JumpCrisscross 3y ago
> boomers can only think about being made late for work They also show up to vote, show up at town halls and call their electeds. It's only recently, largely due to Gen Z and newly-engaged Millenials, that the tide is turning [1]. [1] https://circle.tufts.edu/latest-research/gen-z-voted-higher-rate-2022-previous-generations-their-first-midterm-election https://circle.tufts.edu/latest-research/gen-z-voted-higher-...

JumpCrisscross 3y ago

> "Be the change you want to see in the world" is increasingly more and more meaningless each day It's a good start. But individual action has always been meaningless. What matters is collective action. Ironically, repeating the meme of widespread nihilism (which isn't true, it's a vocal minority) degrades that capability.

basil-rash 3y ago
What actually matters are the actions of a small handful of elites that hold all the cards. How many people got together to decide to promote wars in the middle east and Ukraine? How much environmental destruction have they caused? Same goes for domestic water. 2 people own a single CA business that uses more water than all of LA. But angelenos are told it’s on them to take shorter showers to save water.
- JumpCrisscross 3y ago
  > How many people got together to decide to promote wars in the middle east and Ukraine? Lots of people. Certainly for Ukraine; it's an issue electeds are called about repeatedly. (I've called on it.) > angelenos are told it’s on them to take shorter showers to save water And then don't. California's water shortage is a political choice by, ultimately, its voters.
  - basil-rash 3y ago
    Most citizens don’t support the war, yet it goes on. Calling is pillow talk designed to appease the people into thinking they matter. And what do the showers matter when two people have unilateral control over more water than the entire city? The voters have no power, they are just convenient scapegoats. Not to mention all the water we let drain into the ocean every year, just to have Gavin yell about the reservoirs being low the next, while he laughs all the way to the polling office, accompanied by the two senators he unconstitutionally appointed… “voters have power”. It’d be funny if it weren’t so terrible.
    - JumpCrisscross 3y ago
      > Most citizens don’t support the war Recent shift and highly partisan [1]. Guess what's hitting the rocks in the House [2]. > Calling is pillow talk designed to appease the people into thinking they matter How many electeds do you know? Senior staffers? Because every one I know, on both sides of the political aisle, uses calls and letters as a proxy for whether their voters care about something. Particularly if it's a novel issue, i.e. without polling. Someone willing to call or write may also create a ruckus, or join a primary challenger's campaign. They're likely a regular voter, including in primaries. And if won over they might drive turnout over the issue. > voters have no power, they are just convenient scapegoats Come on, those people have control through the law. [1] https://news.gallup.com/poll/513680/american-views-ukraine-war-charts.aspx https://news.gallup.com/poll/513680/american-views-ukraine-w... [2] https://www.nytimes.com/2024/01/17/us/politics/johnson-biden-border-ukraine.html https://www.nytimes.com/2024/01/17/us/politics/johnson-biden...
    - 3y ago
digging 3y ago
> But individual action has always been meaningless. What matters is collective action. I think this actually misses the key point. 1. Every person only has control of their individual action, and has to find a way for it to be meaningful. 2. Individual action can't meaningfully address a problem like plastic pollution by acting against it directly. 3. The individual actions which do matter are mostly those which drive collective action. That means individuals need to learn to organize and do the work of organizing. It's hard work though. 4. People should be trained not to agonize over every individual food choice, or to rage at home about how bad things are, but to organize. Learn to do it, learn to teach it, and do the work.
- JumpCrisscross 3y ago
  > individual actions which do matter are mostly those which drive collective action. That means individuals need to learn to organize and do the work of organizing. It's hard work though 100% agree. And look, if you’re trying to get single-use plastics banned, you shouldn’t be using them. But your Nos. 3 and 4 should be pinned to every discussion of this kind.

marssaxman 3y ago

Some of us middle-aged people are having that experience, too; years of trying to "be the change you want to see in the world" with no visible result tends to leave one feeling rather tired.