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I tried Notion a few years ago. Definitely a slick and polished app. And clearly useful to a lot of people. But I'll never get used to the idea of putting that

I tried Notion a few years ago. Definitely a slick and polished app. And clearly useful to a lot of people. But I'll never get used to the idea of putting that much of my life or business into a web app. Between potential terms of service changes, potential security issues and now potential misuse via AI (and I LOVE AI) I just will never be comfortable having that much information in someone else's web app.

sensanaty 3y ago
I found them okay, but then they really started pushing the useless AI crap and wouldn't let me unsubscribe from their spammy emails, so I dropped them completely Fuck off, Ivan from Notion, I don't care about your useless AI offerings
Snow_Falls 3y ago
You may want to try trilium, desktop app with the ability to self-host a sync/web server.
azemetre 3y ago
I feel the same way, I’ve never been steered wrong just using markdown and grep’ing my notes. Obviously not advanced as notion but I’m just writing text here, it doesn’t need to be advanced. The hardest part when writing is the act of writing itself, web apps just seem too bloated for my use case of simple text.
- andenacitelli 3y ago
  Notion doesn’t really shine when it’s used as a markdown alternative or an editor, though their editing experience IS excellent (though admittedly, for simple cases, no app can really beat the simplicity of Markdown). The things you can do with dynamic content (database) really make it more than a wiki. People can, and do, plan their whole life in it. Project management, SEO-indexable pages, lots of surprisingly cool stuff. I used to use it quite frequently, though my ADHD causes me gravitate a bit more heavily towards organizational mechanisms like it to cope. Using it to make impromptu priority lists that will do a lot of the reorganization for me as I slot new content in is really nice. It’s a bit of overhead but it’s often worth it for anything nontrivial. I keep a backlog in it and use it for scratch work and rough design docs (final copy goes in our actual deployed-from-markdown docs).
rubymamis 3y ago
That's why I'm working on a local-first with native-like performance Notion alternative using Qt C++ and QML called Plume[1]. It uses an advanced block editor[2] that I built from scratch. All notes are simply plaintext/markdown underneath. Advanced blocks (like Kanban, for example) uses very simple syntax, for example: {{kanban}} # Todo - [ ] item 1 - [ ] item 2 # In Progress - [ ] item 1 - [ ] item 2 {{/kanban}} [1] https://www.get-plume.com/ https://www.get-plume.com/ [2] https://imgur.com/NIgDLOU https://imgur.com/NIgDLOU
- laughing_snyder 3y ago
  Your tool seems to be STRONGLY inspired by the MPL-2.0 licensed https://www.get-notes.com https://www.get-notes.com. And I mean STRONGLY. Down to the websites Favicon.
  - rubymamis 3y ago
    Haha, they're both my creation (: Plume is based on Notes (https://github.com/nuttyartist/notes https://github.com/nuttyartist/notes). I believe I'll change the icon before Plume's release.
- nklmilojevic 3y ago
  From what I see, this doesn't compare to Notion. Notion is not typically used as a note-taking app, but rather as an internal wiki.
  - rubymamis 3y ago
    It will support inter-note linking. So you could build your own personal wiki using Plume. The main difference with Notion will be real-time collaboration (which Plume doesn't support).
    - j45 3y ago
      Collaboration is definitely where all note taking apps go as soon as more people need to access your notes or participate in them as a group
wyre 3y ago
I was using Notion, but I found Obisidian to be very similar, maybe less powerful out of the box, but feels much better to use. All files are written in Markdown and stored on device (or in iCloud or wherever), has a "marketplace" for user designed themes and plugins.
- psc 3y ago
  I like Obsidian too, but the one thing it really can't do that Notion does well is collaboration. And surprisingly I haven't seen any good plugins that solve this problem (to be fair it's not an easy problem).
  - sureglymop 3y ago
    I have some months ago messed around with writing a plugin that allows collaborative editing in some sense. Basically, I realized that my notes are in nextcloud and nextcloud already has a collaborative markdown editor based on Y.js. So my goal was to open a file from nextcloud in obsidian as a participant to the collaborative editor session of that file. Right now I'm a bit busy with exams but it was working pretty well and I may finish it sometime.
j45 3y ago
The biggest omission in Notion is that it does not have an honest or complete offline-first mode. Internet connectivity can vary. People still fly and waiting on slow wifi or data is not acceptable. 30% slower internet speeds makes you work 30% slower. I quite liked notion otherwise. I just think they will always fight this issue for a group of people who would pay and use it for a long time who may have previously outgrown OneNote, Evernote, etc.
ryanSrich 3y ago
This is why I love using obsidian. It's just a directory of markdown files on my computer.
- sureglymop 3y ago
  I agree but I wish it were finally open sourced. At this point the community and paying users must be plenty anyway.
- jessyco 3y ago
  While not as useful as Notion, I agree and use Obsidian as well. Check out their road map: https://obsidian.md/roadmap/ https://obsidian.md/roadmap/ They do have plans to work on "Dynamic views - Create dynamic tables using data stored in note properties." which may give a more Notion like feeling to some things..
bluescrn 3y ago
I took a look at it not so long ago, they were pushing AI features rather too aggressively, essentially turning the cursor into an advert for them. I noped out very rapidly.
slumpt_ 3y ago
Are there tools you do trust? How broadly do you apply this approach to the use of web applications?
- lemonberry 3y ago
  I'm not an authority on this stuff at all. For me, trust is on a spectrum. And whether I use a tool or not depends on what end of the spectrum it falls on and how much I need to use a service. For example, I really ought to find a new email provider.
seanhunter 3y ago
Yup. And experience[1] says that even if you think it's great and/or the team is great today things can change in such a way as to really suck in the future. [1]I'm looking at you in particular evernote.

sensanaty 3y ago

I found them okay, but then they really started pushing the useless AI crap and wouldn't let me unsubscribe from their spammy emails, so I dropped them completely Fuck off, Ivan from Notion, I don't care about your useless AI offerings

Snow_Falls 3y ago

You may want to try trilium, desktop app with the ability to self-host a sync/web server.

azemetre 3y ago

I feel the same way, I’ve never been steered wrong just using markdown and grep’ing my notes. Obviously not advanced as notion but I’m just writing text here, it doesn’t need to be advanced. The hardest part when writing is the act of writing itself, web apps just seem too bloated for my use case of simple text.

andenacitelli 3y ago
Notion doesn’t really shine when it’s used as a markdown alternative or an editor, though their editing experience IS excellent (though admittedly, for simple cases, no app can really beat the simplicity of Markdown). The things you can do with dynamic content (database) really make it more than a wiki. People can, and do, plan their whole life in it. Project management, SEO-indexable pages, lots of surprisingly cool stuff. I used to use it quite frequently, though my ADHD causes me gravitate a bit more heavily towards organizational mechanisms like it to cope. Using it to make impromptu priority lists that will do a lot of the reorganization for me as I slot new content in is really nice. It’s a bit of overhead but it’s often worth it for anything nontrivial. I keep a backlog in it and use it for scratch work and rough design docs (final copy goes in our actual deployed-from-markdown docs).

rubymamis 3y ago

That's why I'm working on a local-first with native-like performance Notion alternative using Qt C++ and QML called Plume[1]. It uses an advanced block editor[2] that I built from scratch. All notes are simply plaintext/markdown underneath. Advanced blocks (like Kanban, for example) uses very simple syntax, for example: {{kanban}} # Todo - [ ] item 1 - [ ] item 2 # In Progress - [ ] item 1 - [ ] item 2 {{/kanban}} [1] https://www.get-plume.com/ https://www.get-plume.com/ [2] https://imgur.com/NIgDLOU https://imgur.com/NIgDLOU

laughing_snyder 3y ago
Your tool seems to be STRONGLY inspired by the MPL-2.0 licensed https://www.get-notes.com https://www.get-notes.com. And I mean STRONGLY. Down to the websites Favicon.
- rubymamis 3y ago
  Haha, they're both my creation (: Plume is based on Notes (https://github.com/nuttyartist/notes https://github.com/nuttyartist/notes). I believe I'll change the icon before Plume's release.
nklmilojevic 3y ago
From what I see, this doesn't compare to Notion. Notion is not typically used as a note-taking app, but rather as an internal wiki.
- rubymamis 3y ago
  It will support inter-note linking. So you could build your own personal wiki using Plume. The main difference with Notion will be real-time collaboration (which Plume doesn't support).
  - j45 3y ago
    Collaboration is definitely where all note taking apps go as soon as more people need to access your notes or participate in them as a group

wyre 3y ago

I was using Notion, but I found Obisidian to be very similar, maybe less powerful out of the box, but feels much better to use. All files are written in Markdown and stored on device (or in iCloud or wherever), has a "marketplace" for user designed themes and plugins.

psc 3y ago
I like Obsidian too, but the one thing it really can't do that Notion does well is collaboration. And surprisingly I haven't seen any good plugins that solve this problem (to be fair it's not an easy problem).
- sureglymop 3y ago
  I have some months ago messed around with writing a plugin that allows collaborative editing in some sense. Basically, I realized that my notes are in nextcloud and nextcloud already has a collaborative markdown editor based on Y.js. So my goal was to open a file from nextcloud in obsidian as a participant to the collaborative editor session of that file. Right now I'm a bit busy with exams but it was working pretty well and I may finish it sometime.

j45 3y ago

The biggest omission in Notion is that it does not have an honest or complete offline-first mode. Internet connectivity can vary. People still fly and waiting on slow wifi or data is not acceptable. 30% slower internet speeds makes you work 30% slower. I quite liked notion otherwise. I just think they will always fight this issue for a group of people who would pay and use it for a long time who may have previously outgrown OneNote, Evernote, etc.

ryanSrich 3y ago

This is why I love using obsidian. It's just a directory of markdown files on my computer.

sureglymop 3y ago
I agree but I wish it were finally open sourced. At this point the community and paying users must be plenty anyway.
jessyco 3y ago
While not as useful as Notion, I agree and use Obsidian as well. Check out their road map: https://obsidian.md/roadmap/ https://obsidian.md/roadmap/ They do have plans to work on "Dynamic views - Create dynamic tables using data stored in note properties." which may give a more Notion like feeling to some things..

bluescrn 3y ago

I took a look at it not so long ago, they were pushing AI features rather too aggressively, essentially turning the cursor into an advert for them. I noped out very rapidly.

slumpt_ 3y ago

Are there tools you do trust? How broadly do you apply this approach to the use of web applications?

lemonberry 3y ago
I'm not an authority on this stuff at all. For me, trust is on a spectrum. And whether I use a tool or not depends on what end of the spectrum it falls on and how much I need to use a service. For example, I really ought to find a new email provider.

seanhunter 3y ago

Yup. And experience[1] says that even if you think it's great and/or the team is great today things can change in such a way as to really suck in the future. [1]I'm looking at you in particular evernote.