3 ms·

Some people are capable of thinking with a level of nuance deeper than "unions bad."

adastra22 3y ago
Other people are able to fully consider all the relevant factors, history and circumstances, and still come away with the belief that unions are near-universally bad.
JackFr 3y ago
Teacher's unions aren't there to improve student outcomes. They exist for he benefit of teachers. Police unions aren't there to improve public safety. They exist for the benefit of the police.
- acdha 3y ago
  Here’s the thing: both of those are good. Anywhere you have a large group of people doing a job, you will inevitably have issues where their bosses want to make decisions which will negatively impact life for a lot of working people, and collective bargaining helps counterbalance that. There are problems with certain unions, but that has to do with the framework around them. When a police union protests because one of their members is found guilty, that looks like a union problem but it’s really a symptom of a deeper leadership problem: you’re hiring a ton of cops who think they’re above the law!
- nothercastle 3y ago
  Most organizations are there to benefit the organization or leader not the members or public.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
xboxnolifes 3y ago
Maybe some, but nearly every person I've ever heard even mention unions has held one of two (mutually exclusive) views: "unions good" or "unions bad". It's never "<specific union> is bad/good, because <specific reason>".
- adastra22 3y ago
  That’s not a contradiction. I’m in the “union bad” camp, though I’m also certain there are examples of good unions. I wouldn’t deny that there are. But I wouldn’t consider a good union as a counter example to my “unions bad” conclusion, and I do t believe this to be motivated reasoning. For you see, by “unions bad” I mean that incentive misalignment makes all unions become self-serving and focus on protectionist policies that are ultimately in the long term a disservice to the workers they represent and the economy as a whole. TL;DR: unions come with bad incentives, and bad incentives eventually result in worse outcomes. Ergo, “unions bad.”

Other people are able to fully consider all the relevant factors, history and circumstances, and still come away with the belief that unions are near-universally bad.

JackFr 3y ago

Teacher's unions aren't there to improve student outcomes. They exist for he benefit of teachers. Police unions aren't there to improve public safety. They exist for the benefit of the police.

acdha 3y ago
Here’s the thing: both of those are good. Anywhere you have a large group of people doing a job, you will inevitably have issues where their bosses want to make decisions which will negatively impact life for a lot of working people, and collective bargaining helps counterbalance that. There are problems with certain unions, but that has to do with the framework around them. When a police union protests because one of their members is found guilty, that looks like a union problem but it’s really a symptom of a deeper leadership problem: you’re hiring a ton of cops who think they’re above the law!
nothercastle 3y ago
Most organizations are there to benefit the organization or leader not the members or public.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

xboxnolifes 3y ago

Maybe some, but nearly every person I've ever heard even mention unions has held one of two (mutually exclusive) views: "unions good" or "unions bad". It's never "<specific union> is bad/good, because <specific reason>".

adastra22 3y ago
That’s not a contradiction. I’m in the “union bad” camp, though I’m also certain there are examples of good unions. I wouldn’t deny that there are. But I wouldn’t consider a good union as a counter example to my “unions bad” conclusion, and I do t believe this to be motivated reasoning. For you see, by “unions bad” I mean that incentive misalignment makes all unions become self-serving and focus on protectionist policies that are ultimately in the long term a disservice to the workers they represent and the economy as a whole. TL;DR: unions come with bad incentives, and bad incentives eventually result in worse outcomes. Ergo, “unions bad.”