3 ms·

Do you not believe that societal constructs are real? What makes (fiat) money a real resource and copyright an imaginary one? What about this logic: Debt is no

by kopecs 3y ago

Do you not believe that societal constructs are real? What makes (fiat) money a real resource and copyright an imaginary one? What about this logic: Debt is not a real thing. It's a fiction. Subverting contract law is not like subverting the laws of physics. Simply don't pay your bills! What happens when you subvert contract law is some guys with guns, in either an overt way or a subtle one, force a trade of your imaginary resource (money) for the real resource (labor), through a contract. It's a bit of clever misdirection to declare yourself "in debt" or "debt free." Money is made up! It's fiction! It is whatever we want it to be!

xpe 3y ago
Thank you, kopecs! It is nice to see a voice of reason here. Sometimes it helps me to remember that people are not that far evolved from other primates. Our abilities to form useful conceptualizations and error-correct are far from uniform. Forming and reforming mental models and continually seeking truth is not something that comes easy -- or possible -- for many.
rngname22 3y ago
Really confused to see your comment flagged. The parent comment basically says "copyright is not a physical good or law, therefore we may disregard it". As if the same couldn't be said for any verbal agreement, sexual consent, property rights, whatever. They ought to be arguing why this _particular_ verbal agreement/social contract is not worth enforcing or practicing, rather than dismissing the entire category.
- carlosjobim 3y ago
  It can and should be said about every fiction, as a healthy reminder to yourself. Fiat money, government and property rights are complete abstractions, completely abused and tarnished beyond all limits. A verbal agreement is on a much closer level to reality. Even people who have never heard of money or owned property will take a man up on his word. As for sexual consent it is not something abstract at all. It's not words. It is the will of a person and something that can never be misunderstood.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
mlsu 3y ago
I do not believe any of these social constructs are real. Map vs territory. The map: debt. The territory: guys who come to your house and kick you out for not paying your debt.
- kopecs 3y ago
  A bit late, but I don't find that analogy apt here. Your territory refers directly to the map. And if you don't believe social constructs to be real, then I am confused as to why in your original comment "money" is given as something which is real. I think one could reasonably say that all social constructs are "imaginary" (whether that is useful is another question, but I would say it is not), but I find it more difficult once you engage in line-drawing within social constructs, especially so when you don't specifically articulate a boundary.
- xpe 3y ago
  > I do not believe any of these social constructs are real. You are redefining the word "real". You know this. Some people get a delight from redefining words and seeing the reaction. It is rather tiresome; it doesn't help constructive debate. What have we accomplished here? Have you convinced anyone? Feel free to disagree with a particular social norm or law and present your thinking. If you want to get into epistemology, please do. But we have to find a shared language that makes sense.

by kopecs 3y ago

xpe 3y ago

Thank you, kopecs! It is nice to see a voice of reason here. Sometimes it helps me to remember that people are not that far evolved from other primates. Our abilities to form useful conceptualizations and error-correct are far from uniform. Forming and reforming mental models and continually seeking truth is not something that comes easy -- or possible -- for many.

rngname22 3y ago

Really confused to see your comment flagged. The parent comment basically says "copyright is not a physical good or law, therefore we may disregard it". As if the same couldn't be said for any verbal agreement, sexual consent, property rights, whatever. They ought to be arguing why this _particular_ verbal agreement/social contract is not worth enforcing or practicing, rather than dismissing the entire category.

carlosjobim 3y ago
It can and should be said about every fiction, as a healthy reminder to yourself. Fiat money, government and property rights are complete abstractions, completely abused and tarnished beyond all limits. A verbal agreement is on a much closer level to reality. Even people who have never heard of money or owned property will take a man up on his word. As for sexual consent it is not something abstract at all. It's not words. It is the will of a person and something that can never be misunderstood.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

mlsu 3y ago

I do not believe any of these social constructs are real. Map vs territory. The map: debt. The territory: guys who come to your house and kick you out for not paying your debt.

kopecs 3y ago
A bit late, but I don't find that analogy apt here. Your territory refers directly to the map. And if you don't believe social constructs to be real, then I am confused as to why in your original comment "money" is given as something which is real. I think one could reasonably say that all social constructs are "imaginary" (whether that is useful is another question, but I would say it is not), but I find it more difficult once you engage in line-drawing within social constructs, especially so when you don't specifically articulate a boundary.
xpe 3y ago
> I do not believe any of these social constructs are real. You are redefining the word "real". You know this. Some people get a delight from redefining words and seeing the reaction. It is rather tiresome; it doesn't help constructive debate. What have we accomplished here? Have you convinced anyone? Feel free to disagree with a particular social norm or law and present your thinking. If you want to get into epistemology, please do. But we have to find a shared language that makes sense.