4 ms·

For the most part, police officers need to be replaced with case workers. People who can take records of crimes, provide counseling, and give actual legal advic

For the most part, police officers need to be replaced with case workers. People who can take records of crimes, provide counseling, and give actual legal advice to people affected. Occasionally we need dudes with guns to bust something up, but very rarely.

asylteltine 3y ago
Oh yeah when I call the police because I got assaulted I would love a case worker to come and talk down to me about the sociology of crime. Just what we need!
- giraffe_lady 3y ago
  This is funny to me because someone I'm close to called the cops after an assault and they literally just talked down to her and left. What's been your experience with this?
  - pengaru 3y ago
    > This is funny to me because someone I'm close to called the cops after an assault and they literally just talked down to her and left. What's been your experience with this? Police behavior is highly regional and subjective, with a sprinkling of just plain randomness (bad day? good day? roll the dice, armed and privileged either way!)
    - some_random 3y ago
      Somehow McDonalds is able to make the same burger everywhere in the country but getting cops to act in a way that makes bad situations better with any level of consistency is apparently impossible.
      - pengaru 3y ago
        They certainly don't have uniform customer service across the country, and that's a much more appropriate comparison IMO.
      - antisthenes 3y ago
        Maybe, just maybe, police work is a little bit more complicated than making the same shitty mushed frozen burger in a kitchen somewhere to be microwaved for 30 seconds and given to me.
- jncfhnb 3y ago
  What exactly do you want them to do when they show up after you’ve been assaulted and they left?
Althuns 3y ago
Absolutely. Police officers themselves don't want to do this work, but the police as a system would lose power/ resources and thus they fight against any reform. I have a fun side-gig in entertainment and thus witness constantly the massive amounts of LE officers who are required to be hired at each of these events just sitting around doing nothing.
- avery17 3y ago
  Ill have you know they arent just "doing nothing". They're browsing tiktok, okay? Very productive.
- kube-system 3y ago
  The reason those requirements exist is because things do happen occasionally and it can get out of hand at large gatherings when it does. And local taxpayers don't like footing the bill for rowdy people from out of town. Something like an NFL stadium can hold the population of a small city, and when you get that many people together, the law of large numbers applies to the probability of something happening. https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/redskins/a-quietly-escalating-issue-for-nfl-fan-violence-and-how-to-contain-it/2016/10/28/4ec37964-9470-11e6-bb29-bf2701dbe0a3_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/redskins/a-quietly-esc...
  - some_random 3y ago
    Most of the ways that things can get out of hand can be handled by a normal security team. For huge events like NFL, it makes sense to have cops at the ready for the extremely unlikely event of a terrorist attack. But there are orders of magnitude more events with far fewer people that do not need unaccountable armed security.
    - kube-system 3y ago
      With averages of >10 arrests per ~3 hr event at some of these venues, I'd think it is obvious that someone with arrest powers would need to be there. Either way, what you are suggesting has been done, and was the standard before many of these requirements were in place. The problems in police staffing that resulted were the reason these requirements originated.
slibhb 3y ago
I'm just curious, do you live in a high crime area?
- thefaux 3y ago
  I do. I know a number of people who have been mugged (and I have been accosted myself though escaped without injury or theft). I have never heard a story where a police officer intervened to stop the event. Now of course I'm sure that police presence has stopped many muggings, but it's nearly impossible to blanket any city with enough police to actually stop violent crime from occurring.
  - chimeracoder 3y ago
    > I have never heard a story where a police officer intervened to stop the event. The Supreme Court has ruled that the police have no duty to protect the public[0]. Worse, in that same decision, they ruled that states cannot impose a duty to protect the public on the police through legislation. Since this case is about NYPD, it's worth mentioning the case of Lozito vs. NYC. There was a serial killer who went on 28-hour killing spree (four people died in total). The police were dispatched to a subway station in order to catch the suspect. When they arrived, the killer began stabbing Joseph Lozito. Instead of intervening to catch the serial killer that they had been specifically dispatched to apprehend, the police hid in a booth and let him stab Lozito. Lozito managed to disarm and incapacitate the killer, at which point the police decided to emerge from the booth and arrest the killer. Lozito sued the NYPD. He lost because the SCOTUS ruling created binding precedent that police have no duty to protect the public. > Now of course I'm sure that police presence has stopped many muggings This is a common refrain, but research has consistently shown an extremely weak-to-nonexistent correlation between police presence and violent crime. [0] https://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/28/politics/justices-rule-police-do-not-have-a-constitutional-duty-to-protect.html https://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/28/politics/justices-rule-po...
- chasing 3y ago
  Crimes that happen in my area are, as far as I can tell, exclusively handled after-the-fact. The cops appear and take a report. I'm sure they occasionally use force to intervene in a crime, but it must be extremely rare versus just showing up with clipboards and a concerned look.
RobotToaster 3y ago
Police officers should be case workers first and thugs with guns second. If they aren't willing to be that then the whole force should be replaced.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
beaeglebeached 3y ago
Even just letting most police carry under same responsibility as citizens would be big step up. We have constitutional carry here and even with every swinging dick carrying a 9mm under their shirt you can go years without seeing anyone pull one, why the police can't be like that is baffling . This is largely a problem of creation of qualified immunity caste system IMO.
nsajko 3y ago
Citation needed.
advisedwang 3y ago
Isn't that what a detective is supposed to be?

asylteltine 3y ago

Oh yeah when I call the police because I got assaulted I would love a case worker to come and talk down to me about the sociology of crime. Just what we need!

giraffe_lady 3y ago
This is funny to me because someone I'm close to called the cops after an assault and they literally just talked down to her and left. What's been your experience with this?
- pengaru 3y ago
  > This is funny to me because someone I'm close to called the cops after an assault and they literally just talked down to her and left. What's been your experience with this? Police behavior is highly regional and subjective, with a sprinkling of just plain randomness (bad day? good day? roll the dice, armed and privileged either way!)
  - some_random 3y ago
    Somehow McDonalds is able to make the same burger everywhere in the country but getting cops to act in a way that makes bad situations better with any level of consistency is apparently impossible.
    - pengaru 3y ago
      They certainly don't have uniform customer service across the country, and that's a much more appropriate comparison IMO.
    - antisthenes 3y ago
      Maybe, just maybe, police work is a little bit more complicated than making the same shitty mushed frozen burger in a kitchen somewhere to be microwaved for 30 seconds and given to me.
jncfhnb 3y ago
What exactly do you want them to do when they show up after you’ve been assaulted and they left?

Althuns 3y ago

Absolutely. Police officers themselves don't want to do this work, but the police as a system would lose power/ resources and thus they fight against any reform. I have a fun side-gig in entertainment and thus witness constantly the massive amounts of LE officers who are required to be hired at each of these events just sitting around doing nothing.

avery17 3y ago
Ill have you know they arent just "doing nothing". They're browsing tiktok, okay? Very productive.
kube-system 3y ago
The reason those requirements exist is because things do happen occasionally and it can get out of hand at large gatherings when it does. And local taxpayers don't like footing the bill for rowdy people from out of town. Something like an NFL stadium can hold the population of a small city, and when you get that many people together, the law of large numbers applies to the probability of something happening. https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/redskins/a-quietly-escalating-issue-for-nfl-fan-violence-and-how-to-contain-it/2016/10/28/4ec37964-9470-11e6-bb29-bf2701dbe0a3_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/redskins/a-quietly-esc...
- some_random 3y ago
  Most of the ways that things can get out of hand can be handled by a normal security team. For huge events like NFL, it makes sense to have cops at the ready for the extremely unlikely event of a terrorist attack. But there are orders of magnitude more events with far fewer people that do not need unaccountable armed security.
  - kube-system 3y ago
    With averages of >10 arrests per ~3 hr event at some of these venues, I'd think it is obvious that someone with arrest powers would need to be there. Either way, what you are suggesting has been done, and was the standard before many of these requirements were in place. The problems in police staffing that resulted were the reason these requirements originated.

slibhb 3y ago

I'm just curious, do you live in a high crime area?

thefaux 3y ago
I do. I know a number of people who have been mugged (and I have been accosted myself though escaped without injury or theft). I have never heard a story where a police officer intervened to stop the event. Now of course I'm sure that police presence has stopped many muggings, but it's nearly impossible to blanket any city with enough police to actually stop violent crime from occurring.
- chimeracoder 3y ago
  > I have never heard a story where a police officer intervened to stop the event. The Supreme Court has ruled that the police have no duty to protect the public[0]. Worse, in that same decision, they ruled that states cannot impose a duty to protect the public on the police through legislation. Since this case is about NYPD, it's worth mentioning the case of Lozito vs. NYC. There was a serial killer who went on 28-hour killing spree (four people died in total). The police were dispatched to a subway station in order to catch the suspect. When they arrived, the killer began stabbing Joseph Lozito. Instead of intervening to catch the serial killer that they had been specifically dispatched to apprehend, the police hid in a booth and let him stab Lozito. Lozito managed to disarm and incapacitate the killer, at which point the police decided to emerge from the booth and arrest the killer. Lozito sued the NYPD. He lost because the SCOTUS ruling created binding precedent that police have no duty to protect the public. > Now of course I'm sure that police presence has stopped many muggings This is a common refrain, but research has consistently shown an extremely weak-to-nonexistent correlation between police presence and violent crime. [0] https://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/28/politics/justices-rule-police-do-not-have-a-constitutional-duty-to-protect.html https://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/28/politics/justices-rule-po...
chasing 3y ago
Crimes that happen in my area are, as far as I can tell, exclusively handled after-the-fact. The cops appear and take a report. I'm sure they occasionally use force to intervene in a crime, but it must be extremely rare versus just showing up with clipboards and a concerned look.

RobotToaster 3y ago

Police officers should be case workers first and thugs with guns second. If they aren't willing to be that then the whole force should be replaced.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

beaeglebeached 3y ago

Even just letting most police carry under same responsibility as citizens would be big step up. We have constitutional carry here and even with every swinging dick carrying a 9mm under their shirt you can go years without seeing anyone pull one, why the police can't be like that is baffling . This is largely a problem of creation of qualified immunity caste system IMO.

nsajko 3y ago

Citation needed.

advisedwang 3y ago

Isn't that what a detective is supposed to be?