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> Maybe it's one of those things that is easy to explain but hard to understand if you don't have experiential context. Maybe use the word "Ikigai"? It seems

by csdvrx 3y ago

> Maybe it's one of those things that is easy to explain but hard to understand if you don't have experiential context. Maybe use the word "Ikigai"? It seems to carries the concept very well across cultures. It's doing what you love, what you are good at, what the world needs, and what you can get paid for! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ikigai https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ikigai A friend told me a life without Ikigai is a life spent waiting for death. It's an extreme position, because it can just be more opportunities for change/growth/discovery (as someone else posted, why tie in identity?). Also many people seem to lack Ikigai but still be happy. Yet the concept resonated with me. > It can be a way to live life, not an alternative to it You seem to have explored what life is without Ikigai. Could you share your thoughts?

yieldcrv 3y ago
> because it can just be more opportunities for change/growth/discovery That was basically going to be my comment, I'm fulfilled by beating the game. Resource acquisition is a Massive Multiplayer game. I'm fulfilled by the industries I enter to make revenue or sell a company, I'm never doing something grueling and dead end, I feel good about successfully avoiding being in that kind of situation. I'm fulfilled by enjoying the spoils of success. I'm fulfilled by extending the length of time I can enjoy them. I'm fulfilled by parlaying that into passive income or a nice portfolio, or investing in other high growth assets at my risk or peril. But making a forever company? Its never appealed to me, and when I look at other's it doesn't make sense to me. There's always something unobjective about it, burdening their family with a reputation to always defend. I dated a woman that grew up on a decently industrial farm, she was interested in Fortune 500 corporate work and excelled at that but having to prove she wasn't an unsophisticated farmer was a common point for her. I asked the father why farming, he said "feeding the people is so fulfilling", it wasn't until I found the grandfather that I got an objective answer. The grandfather was the one with the portfolio of companies and he set one child into the farming one, and another child into the entertainment ones - golf courses specifically. The grandfather was the person I could relate to. Just an example of things I see a lot. Don't get married to a position, don't burden your family with your obsessions. I am my own lifestyle company.
- csdvrx 3y ago
  > I am my own lifestyle company. I love your reply, as it puts the finger on what I felt was missing from this simple answer that was otherwise very compelling! Like there's exploration and exploitation, ikegai is the #2, but something like wanderlust is the #1: the "change/growth/discovery", or what someone else has called "the happy feeling of anticipation of unknowns that comes from a schooltrip/school vacation bus ride": meeting for the first time people who'll become new friends, seeing new things, and not knowing what may happen, yet having no fear of bad outcomes. It's not exactly wanderlust or serendipity, but something close to that (I wonder if there's a word for it?) mixing adventure/curiosity/freedom and happiness/excitement/inspiration. Having too much ikegai may prevent it, as it may be become a burden - like you explained about the burden of having to always defend a reputation. You may need both this and ikegai, like you need exploration and exploitation - a ying and a yang. > I'm fulfilled by beating the game. Resource acquisition is a Massive Multiplayer game. Success (in creating then selling a company etc) seems to be just a basic resource acquisition - but then, what? Getting fulfilled by beating the game may be like metagaming in board games: it may reduce the enjoyment of the game by putting too much focus on the exploitation part. However, being your own lifestyle company makes it a game within the game: like doing speedruns, or trying to beat a game with each of the playable characters to see the alternative endings That's the exploration: trying out new options to see if they lead to better outcomes in the future. Like research vs development: there needs to be risk taking before refinement.
  - yieldcrv 3y ago
    but then what indeed, I think the world caters decently to those that have resources. I’ve dabbled in the socialite circuit, its spaced out across the year in a few select major cities, I could do it until I die in between various investing or hands on opportunities. You meet really interesting people that are also dabbling in that lifestyle. The Winklevoss twins heard about extremely high tech things early on while partying in Ibiza, for example. So have I I agree with all of your comment
s1artibartfast 3y ago
Thanks for the word Ikigai. I might actually remember it because it is related to the Japanese word Ikiru, which is the verb to live. Ikiru is also the title of one of Akira Kurosawa's finest films [1], which deals with the life and death of a Tokyo bureaucrat, and more specifically his discovery of meaning and purpose in life. I cant recommend it enough. It is generally ranked in the top 100 films of all time, a personal favorite, and reliably moves me to tears every time I watch it. The concept of Ikigai seems to be broader than the professional sphere, so it makes sense that some people may have Ikigai, but it is unrelated to their work, or their work is merely a necessity, to support their passion. I personally believe happiness is a spectrum, so people may have some level of happiness without Ikigai, but it is not qualitatively or quantitatively the same as that with it. I have personally found great satisfaction and joy in my work at times in my career, and not at other times. In my experience, alignment of work, your skills, and passion is a glorious experience. Almost like a drug induced euphoria, it can be an eye opening experience, which you can't help but place other experiences into the context of. It makes sense that those who haven't experienced it dont know- how could they. My professional work isnt currently aligned with my passion, which severly limits my feeling of ikigai, but getting back there is the goal and destination. After getting a taste of it, life without it is certainly lacking. https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0044741/ https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0044741/

by csdvrx 3y ago

yieldcrv 3y ago

> because it can just be more opportunities for change/growth/discovery That was basically going to be my comment, I'm fulfilled by beating the game. Resource acquisition is a Massive Multiplayer game. I'm fulfilled by the industries I enter to make revenue or sell a company, I'm never doing something grueling and dead end, I feel good about successfully avoiding being in that kind of situation. I'm fulfilled by enjoying the spoils of success. I'm fulfilled by extending the length of time I can enjoy them. I'm fulfilled by parlaying that into passive income or a nice portfolio, or investing in other high growth assets at my risk or peril. But making a forever company? Its never appealed to me, and when I look at other's it doesn't make sense to me. There's always something unobjective about it, burdening their family with a reputation to always defend. I dated a woman that grew up on a decently industrial farm, she was interested in Fortune 500 corporate work and excelled at that but having to prove she wasn't an unsophisticated farmer was a common point for her. I asked the father why farming, he said "feeding the people is so fulfilling", it wasn't until I found the grandfather that I got an objective answer. The grandfather was the one with the portfolio of companies and he set one child into the farming one, and another child into the entertainment ones - golf courses specifically. The grandfather was the person I could relate to. Just an example of things I see a lot. Don't get married to a position, don't burden your family with your obsessions. I am my own lifestyle company.

csdvrx 3y ago
> I am my own lifestyle company. I love your reply, as it puts the finger on what I felt was missing from this simple answer that was otherwise very compelling! Like there's exploration and exploitation, ikegai is the #2, but something like wanderlust is the #1: the "change/growth/discovery", or what someone else has called "the happy feeling of anticipation of unknowns that comes from a schooltrip/school vacation bus ride": meeting for the first time people who'll become new friends, seeing new things, and not knowing what may happen, yet having no fear of bad outcomes. It's not exactly wanderlust or serendipity, but something close to that (I wonder if there's a word for it?) mixing adventure/curiosity/freedom and happiness/excitement/inspiration. Having too much ikegai may prevent it, as it may be become a burden - like you explained about the burden of having to always defend a reputation. You may need both this and ikegai, like you need exploration and exploitation - a ying and a yang. > I'm fulfilled by beating the game. Resource acquisition is a Massive Multiplayer game. Success (in creating then selling a company etc) seems to be just a basic resource acquisition - but then, what? Getting fulfilled by beating the game may be like metagaming in board games: it may reduce the enjoyment of the game by putting too much focus on the exploitation part. However, being your own lifestyle company makes it a game within the game: like doing speedruns, or trying to beat a game with each of the playable characters to see the alternative endings That's the exploration: trying out new options to see if they lead to better outcomes in the future. Like research vs development: there needs to be risk taking before refinement.
- yieldcrv 3y ago
  but then what indeed, I think the world caters decently to those that have resources. I’ve dabbled in the socialite circuit, its spaced out across the year in a few select major cities, I could do it until I die in between various investing or hands on opportunities. You meet really interesting people that are also dabbling in that lifestyle. The Winklevoss twins heard about extremely high tech things early on while partying in Ibiza, for example. So have I I agree with all of your comment

s1artibartfast 3y ago

Thanks for the word Ikigai. I might actually remember it because it is related to the Japanese word Ikiru, which is the verb to live. Ikiru is also the title of one of Akira Kurosawa's finest films [1], which deals with the life and death of a Tokyo bureaucrat, and more specifically his discovery of meaning and purpose in life. I cant recommend it enough. It is generally ranked in the top 100 films of all time, a personal favorite, and reliably moves me to tears every time I watch it. The concept of Ikigai seems to be broader than the professional sphere, so it makes sense that some people may have Ikigai, but it is unrelated to their work, or their work is merely a necessity, to support their passion. I personally believe happiness is a spectrum, so people may have some level of happiness without Ikigai, but it is not qualitatively or quantitatively the same as that with it. I have personally found great satisfaction and joy in my work at times in my career, and not at other times. In my experience, alignment of work, your skills, and passion is a glorious experience. Almost like a drug induced euphoria, it can be an eye opening experience, which you can't help but place other experiences into the context of. It makes sense that those who haven't experienced it dont know- how could they. My professional work isnt currently aligned with my passion, which severly limits my feeling of ikigai, but getting back there is the goal and destination. After getting a taste of it, life without it is certainly lacking. https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0044741/ https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0044741/