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My fault for not elaborating much on this point, but there is some blame to be given to the environment around these men. It's not entirely their fault and it's

My fault for not elaborating much on this point, but there is some blame to be given to the environment around these men. It's not entirely their fault and it's not fair they have to undo a lot of it, but... well they do for themselves at least. One of the most common environments is poverty. Their parents tell them to work hard and everything else hopefully falls into place. In this environment they grew up never having good examples or knowing the kindness expected from them as adults. They were often surrounded by selfish people and had to look over their shoulder constantly. Their social value was based entirely on their looks, skills, and/or money. Really what else can you expect? With this I also claim there is some merit to the idea that at least part of modern feminism really is just classist misandry rebranded for a new era. I want to reiterate that this is beginning to affect women too. Absent any good examples of how to live better they react to the same situation by taking advantage of men with the same or worse self-esteem issues as themselves. These women are not happy. They care more about impressing their peers and the man is just an accessory. I hope my explanations distinguish my perspective from the usual "red pill" nonsense. There's something here, but I'm just a dude so idk.

JohnBooty 3y ago
I definitely think that a lot of incel- and incel-adjacent behavior comes from a person's environment, and as such is not necessarily the incel's fault. (As they say, things may not be one's fault but they are one's responsibility...) These women are not happy. They care more about impressing their peers and the man is just an accessory. I've had a decent number of female friends over the years while I know that there are all kinds of toxic people out there, I don't really see women acting this way in general especially as they progress into adulthood. Of course plenty of toxic counterexamples exist, I'm just talking about in general. There's something here I think that any time some kind of movement or thought paradigm gets traction, it's because there are some grains of truth there. I think a lot of men fall through the cracks in society in one way or another, and have trouble finding partners, and often it's not their "fault" per se, and I think those are some of the grains of truth here. I don't agree with the "red pill" sort of conclusion, but I definitely think there's something there in terms of what they are experiencing.

JohnBooty 3y ago

I definitely think that a lot of incel- and incel-adjacent behavior comes from a person's environment, and as such is not necessarily the incel's fault. (As they say, things may not be one's fault but they are one's responsibility...) These women are not happy. They care more about impressing their peers and the man is just an accessory. I've had a decent number of female friends over the years while I know that there are all kinds of toxic people out there, I don't really see women acting this way in general especially as they progress into adulthood. Of course plenty of toxic counterexamples exist, I'm just talking about in general. There's something here I think that any time some kind of movement or thought paradigm gets traction, it's because there are some grains of truth there. I think a lot of men fall through the cracks in society in one way or another, and have trouble finding partners, and often it's not their "fault" per se, and I think those are some of the grains of truth here. I don't agree with the "red pill" sort of conclusion, but I definitely think there's something there in terms of what they are experiencing.