4 ms·

Just to be clear… your argument is or isn’t “That’s just iOS and there’s clearly nothing nefarious about it”? That’s my good faith understanding of the point y

• JimDabell 3y ago
  > which you seem to be ignoring no matter how often I ask you to acknowledge it. I wasn’t ignoring it. I was refusing to respond to replies with insults. I have been very clear about that. > Just to be clear… your argument is or isn’t “That’s just iOS and there’s clearly nothing nefarious about it”? No. Your argument is: > they still take any opportunity they can to make it look unattractive such as hiding the ability to install a PWA deep in a series of unrelated menus. Let’s deconstruct that to three assertions: - It’s deep in a series of menus - It’s in an unrelated menu - It’s being purposefully hidden by Apple. I have pointed out several things: - It’s a top-level item in a very commonly used menu. - It belongs in that menu. - Other items in that menu are also there for the same purpose. - Apple has no incentive to hide those other items. So right away, we can get rid of the first assertion. It’s not deep in a series of menus. That’s just plainly false, as anybody who has an iPhone near them can verify. It’s a top-level item in a primary menu. It’s a single tap away. Next we move on to whether it belongs there or not. As I repeatedly point out, the “share” button actually exposes a whole lot more than just sharing. I’m not even certain “share button” is its official name, I think it might be called “action button” or something. You can consider it the “put this somewhere else button” because that’s what it actually means, even if the name doesn’t roll off the tongue. That’s the platform convention. That’s how iOS users perceive it. Want to send it to somebody? Tap the button. Want to open it in a different app? Tap the button. Want to save it somewhere? Tap the button. That’s what the button is for. You are looking at something and you want to put it somewhere. What else is in that menu? You can save a document to files. You can print it. You can bookmark it. You get a list of other apps you can open it with. You can add it to a note. You can copy it to the pasteboard. These all fit the same theme. You are looking at something and you want to put it somewhere. Does “I want to put this PWA on my Home Screen” fit there? It absolutely does. That’s exactly where I’d locate the feature. You are looking at a PWA, and you want to put it somewhere. So tap the put it somewhere button. So no, it’s not in an unrelated menu. So the second assertion goes. Finally, is Apple purposefully hiding it there? Well, showing that it belongs there should be enough to disprove that, but there’s also more. What else is in that menu? Let’s skip over sharing to eliminate quibbling over “but those belong there”. Saving a file isn’t sharing. Printing isn’t sharing. Bookmarking isn’t sharing. Opening in another app isn’t sharing. Adding it to a note isn’t sharing. Copying it to the pasteboard isn’t sharing. Are all of those purposefully being hidden by Apple where users won’t look for them? How does hiding “Add to bookmarks” have a “multi billion dollar incentive” behind it? How does hiding “Copy to pasteboard” “protect Apple’s revenue stream”? Why would Apple even implement these features in the first place only to hide them? They aren’t being purposefully hidden. They are all there because they all do the same sort of thing – the same thing that Add to Home Screen does. They take what the user is looking at and put it somewhere. And users use this menu all the time. It’s not some obscure part of Safari you’ve got to dig to find. The average user has probably scrolled past Add to Home Screen thousands and thousands of times. If Apple were trying to hide this functionality, this is the very last place they’d put it. They’ve put it somewhere that a) is accessible with a single tap, b) makes sense conceptually, and c) will be seen by users all the time. So the final assertion is no good either. And like cpuguy83 pointed out elsewhere in the thread - this has been how you add a site to your home screen since day one, when Steve Jobs was telling everybody that web apps were the only way to build apps for the iPhone. At that point PWAs didn’t even exist. And that’s the spot they chose for it back then – before native apps were even allowed by Apple, when Apple wanted everybody to build web apps and add them to their home screens. It completely contradicts the idea that this is a hiding place where they don’t want people to see it. That’s where they chose to put it when it’s incontrovertible fact that they wanted people to use it.
  • mdhb 3y ago
    So why is it that after this existing for so many years that nobody seems to even know it’s an option or how to do it. Just to give a bit of context on my own background because it’s relevant here but I spent most of the last ten years running A/B tests for companies and then analysing the results. One of the core truths in my particular line of work is that default options matter a lot more than people tend to realise. So when you take an idea such as “I would like to install this app” and you then: 1. Don’t provide a way to ask users if they would like to do that. 2. Put it in a menu that’s cluttered with many other unrelated things. 3. Call it something entirely different “add to home”. It’s not a mystery what is going to happen here. We are talking the overwhelming MAJORITY of people will have no idea and it won’t get used. I’m just a random person on the internet so I’m not asking you to take my word for it. It’s specifically why I mentioned the test before of go and talk to any person with an iPhone and ask them how they can install an app without the App Store. You can prove this to yourself tomorrow by asking ten people. You can even incentivise them with money. They absolutely can not do it and will look at you like you have two heads. They have no idea it’s even possible. So the next logical question that comes to mind is why do you suppose that is? There’s a few potential options: 1. They somehow have no idea that this is a problem their users struggle with. 2. They are bad a UI design 3. It’s an intentional choice to try and keep people in the dark while still avoiding any legal action for anti competitive behaviour. I can only find evidence for one of those options but I have a LOT of it. It’s not a coincidence that it happens to align perfectly consistently with all of their other actions towards treating the web as a competitive application platform. That’s just who they are and how they do business.