10 ms·

Huh? I'd understand your phrase "protocol generator" to be the equivalent of "higher order protocol" in the same way that a "higher order function" can be seen

Huh? I'd understand your phrase "protocol generator" to be the equivalent of "higher order protocol" in the same way that a "higher order function" can be seen as a "function generator"...

smaudet 3y ago
The difference would be that a function, order non-withstanding, is (a) callable (site). "Higher order", merely means one that takes/returns other functions, but they are still fundamentally, functions (callable sites). A protocol has the property that it is implementation independent, but that it has a defined interface (i.e. it is immediately usable). This is neither (not a defined interface, implementation dependent). If it doesn't share either property with a protocol, then you can't claim that it is truly a protocol, "higher order" or otherwise. This confused verbiage is what should be cause for concern - note that I can claim a "higher order" protocol with JSON or gRPC - its all the basic building blocks for a protocol, just both sides need to implement the same stuff! Except, neither JSON nor gRPC are crazy enough to claim to be a "higher order" protocol, which to me puts this in the rubbish bin of over-complicated technologies looking for a problem, like SOAP, JavaBeans, OSGi - all of these could also be claimed to be "higher order" protocols as well. The term is meaningless, and so I assume, is this project.
- jazzyjackson 3y ago
  its wild to me that you would dismiss a project as meaningless because you can't immediately understand it
  - smaudet 3y ago
    Oh I might read their specs: "Willow is a family of specifications:" https://willowprotocol.org/specs/index.html#specifications https://willowprotocol.org/specs/index.html#specifications This part looks useful. But is it useful to be a "willow" family of protocols? Probably not. Their claims on the front page are extraordinary. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, and heading the page with nonsense is not a good start.
    - mplewis 3y ago
      Pretty rude to dismiss a project without reading any of its documentation.
      - deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]

Huh? I'd understand your phrase "protocol generator" to be the equivalent of "higher order protocol" in the same way that a "higher order function" can be seen as a "function generator"...

smaudet 3y ago

The difference would be that a function, order non-withstanding, is (a) callable (site). "Higher order", merely means one that takes/returns other functions, but they are still fundamentally, functions (callable sites). A protocol has the property that it is implementation independent, but that it has a defined interface (i.e. it is immediately usable). This is neither (not a defined interface, implementation dependent). If it doesn't share either property with a protocol, then you can't claim that it is truly a protocol, "higher order" or otherwise. This confused verbiage is what should be cause for concern - note that I can claim a "higher order" protocol with JSON or gRPC - its all the basic building blocks for a protocol, just both sides need to implement the same stuff! Except, neither JSON nor gRPC are crazy enough to claim to be a "higher order" protocol, which to me puts this in the rubbish bin of over-complicated technologies looking for a problem, like SOAP, JavaBeans, OSGi - all of these could also be claimed to be "higher order" protocols as well. The term is meaningless, and so I assume, is this project.

jazzyjackson 3y ago
its wild to me that you would dismiss a project as meaningless because you can't immediately understand it
- smaudet 3y ago
  Oh I might read their specs: "Willow is a family of specifications:" https://willowprotocol.org/specs/index.html#specifications https://willowprotocol.org/specs/index.html#specifications This part looks useful. But is it useful to be a "willow" family of protocols? Probably not. Their claims on the front page are extraordinary. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, and heading the page with nonsense is not a good start.
  - mplewis 3y ago
    Pretty rude to dismiss a project without reading any of its documentation.
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]