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It would be a baffling decision for GitHub to make any product decisions based on engagement. They don’t even serve ads, what benefit do they have to an engaged

It would be a baffling decision for GitHub to make any product decisions based on engagement. They don’t even serve ads, what benefit do they have to an engaged user?

throwaway17_17 3y ago
I would assume, in the context of Microsoft encouraging engagement (specifically the PR feature of GitHub), the more engagement they have the more code is put into their system, thereby allowing them more data to train Copilot and other ML models.
- cozzyd 3y ago
  conspiracy theory: GH is Microsoft's ploy to kill open source once and for all by facilitating burnout. (obviously false, but entertaining to think about)
  - voakbasda 3y ago
    What makes it “obvious”? They tried to kill Linux and Open Source. I will never forgive them, and I sure as hell would never trust them not to try again.
    - cozzyd 3y ago
      Such conspiracies are hard to hide, so it seems quite unlikely to me (and GH was sort of like this before the MS acquisition, no?)
twp 3y ago
For an example of GitHub enraging its users and ignoring all feedback see the feedback on the new feed: https://github.com/orgs/community/discussions/13130 https://github.com/orgs/community/discussions/13130 https://github.com/orgs/community/discussions/65343 https://github.com/orgs/community/discussions/65343 The feedback is overwhelmingly negative, and has severely disrupted many people's workflow, but GitHub doesn't even acknowledge the problem.
- delfinom 3y ago
  It's enshittification. The same way LinkedIn is being turned into ...generic social media, GitHub is slowly being eaten away into serving some executive's delusions.
berkes 3y ago
Engagement isn't just driving ads. It's driving engagement: The "toothbrush"-factor we called that in app-development: do you have an app that people pick up like their toothbrush: without much thought, several times a day? Engagement means people have you in their workflow, on their radar. I would love it if Github is something that I don't have to think of, that is invisible and out of my mind. I'd love it if it's something I never have to visit, open, see or interact with; as as little as possible. I'd love it if it were preconfigured to take work from me rather than impose yet another inbox, timeline, bookmarks, "likes" and so on. And if you consider "advertisements" very liberal, that's exactly what Github is: a place for companies to attract eyeballs and engagement on their software.
- ninkendo 3y ago
  I think I know what engagement is, but I’m wondering why you think Microsoft benefits from me being engaged with GitHub?
  - alwaysbeconsing 3y ago
    It means they keep position as dominant Git forge, mindshare: people are most familiar with them, then think of them first for Enterprise contracts, are interested in other paid product/feature (Copilot e.g.). Side benefit to overwhelming mindshare many people expect/require the other forge to have the Github feature: being different counts as negative. This reinforces.
  - andrewaylett 3y ago
    Because the known system effect means that the more arbitrary developers engage with them, the more likely it is that at least some of them will drive corporate adoption and, by extension, sales. Tailscale put it well: https://tailscale.com/blog/free-plan https://tailscale.com/blog/free-plan > increased word-of-mouth from free plans sells the more valuable corporate plans
    - ninkendo 3y ago
      Why is it a given that GitHub slowing me down by making me engaged with the site more, will make me spread more word of mouth/etc? Everyone in this thread is just assuming a link here, but I don’t see it at all. GH annoys the shit of me by making me click more shit to get my job done, it “increases engagement”, and then… what exactly? My annoyance is supposed to lead to me… thinking about GitHub more? And thus I’ll pressure my org to use it? This makes no sense. I hate engagement-based metrics as much as the next person but I’m not sure MS is as brain dead as to intentionally make the UX worse, to make engagement higher, and assuming that will somehow increase sales. There’s no link here.

It would be a baffling decision for GitHub to make any product decisions based on engagement. They don’t even serve ads, what benefit do they have to an engaged user?

throwaway17_17 3y ago

I would assume, in the context of Microsoft encouraging engagement (specifically the PR feature of GitHub), the more engagement they have the more code is put into their system, thereby allowing them more data to train Copilot and other ML models.

cozzyd 3y ago
conspiracy theory: GH is Microsoft's ploy to kill open source once and for all by facilitating burnout. (obviously false, but entertaining to think about)
- voakbasda 3y ago
  What makes it “obvious”? They tried to kill Linux and Open Source. I will never forgive them, and I sure as hell would never trust them not to try again.
  - cozzyd 3y ago
    Such conspiracies are hard to hide, so it seems quite unlikely to me (and GH was sort of like this before the MS acquisition, no?)

twp 3y ago

For an example of GitHub enraging its users and ignoring all feedback see the feedback on the new feed: https://github.com/orgs/community/discussions/13130 https://github.com/orgs/community/discussions/13130 https://github.com/orgs/community/discussions/65343 https://github.com/orgs/community/discussions/65343 The feedback is overwhelmingly negative, and has severely disrupted many people's workflow, but GitHub doesn't even acknowledge the problem.

delfinom 3y ago
It's enshittification. The same way LinkedIn is being turned into ...generic social media, GitHub is slowly being eaten away into serving some executive's delusions.

berkes 3y ago

Engagement isn't just driving ads. It's driving engagement: The "toothbrush"-factor we called that in app-development: do you have an app that people pick up like their toothbrush: without much thought, several times a day? Engagement means people have you in their workflow, on their radar. I would love it if Github is something that I don't have to think of, that is invisible and out of my mind. I'd love it if it's something I never have to visit, open, see or interact with; as as little as possible. I'd love it if it were preconfigured to take work from me rather than impose yet another inbox, timeline, bookmarks, "likes" and so on. And if you consider "advertisements" very liberal, that's exactly what Github is: a place for companies to attract eyeballs and engagement on their software.

ninkendo 3y ago
I think I know what engagement is, but I’m wondering why you think Microsoft benefits from me being engaged with GitHub?
- alwaysbeconsing 3y ago
  It means they keep position as dominant Git forge, mindshare: people are most familiar with them, then think of them first for Enterprise contracts, are interested in other paid product/feature (Copilot e.g.). Side benefit to overwhelming mindshare many people expect/require the other forge to have the Github feature: being different counts as negative. This reinforces.
- andrewaylett 3y ago
  Because the known system effect means that the more arbitrary developers engage with them, the more likely it is that at least some of them will drive corporate adoption and, by extension, sales. Tailscale put it well: https://tailscale.com/blog/free-plan https://tailscale.com/blog/free-plan > increased word-of-mouth from free plans sells the more valuable corporate plans
  - ninkendo 3y ago
    Why is it a given that GitHub slowing me down by making me engaged with the site more, will make me spread more word of mouth/etc? Everyone in this thread is just assuming a link here, but I don’t see it at all. GH annoys the shit of me by making me click more shit to get my job done, it “increases engagement”, and then… what exactly? My annoyance is supposed to lead to me… thinking about GitHub more? And thus I’ll pressure my org to use it? This makes no sense. I hate engagement-based metrics as much as the next person but I’m not sure MS is as brain dead as to intentionally make the UX worse, to make engagement higher, and assuming that will somehow increase sales. There’s no link here.