5 ms·

my shift key is there i just have conscientiously objected to it

bayindirh 3y ago
Oh, hey! Thanks for chiming in. It's rare to see rejection of grammar rules on longer forms of writing, so it looked interesting. Any special reasons? Just because I like to know people through their choices and views. Didn't want to sound rude in the previous comment, so if I did, genuinely sorry (non-native speaker woes).
- jynelson 3y ago
  two reasons: 1. writing in lowercase is freeing. it reminds me that grammatical rules are arbitrary, and by extension other rules. "you can just do things." 2. people who are pedantic about this when it's clearly intentional are probably not people i want to interact with anyway, so it's a good anti-asshole filter (https://siderea.dreamwidth.org/1209794.html https://siderea.dreamwidth.org/1209794.html)
  - bayindirh 3y ago
    That's interesting take, thanks. I'd love to chat with you further on this issue, but this is neither the place, nor the time. Maybe I'll mail you about this in the soon-ish future if that's OK for you. Cheers!
    - jynelson 3y ago
      sure, i'm happy to chat more :) my email is on my website
  - prmph 3y ago
    Then wouldn't dispensing with other rules of grammar be even more "freeing"? This is both a genuine and rhetorical question. I guess it's like user interface design, where a cardinal rule is to be conservative, and not break user expectations unduly. Of course UI patterns and language evolves, but the evolution of changes should probably be gradual, and done for a justifiable purpose. In this case, I'm not sure the stylistic choice actually adds anything to the clarity or beauty of the writing.
  - coldpie 3y ago
    You're going to get some strong/rude reactions from "the other side," which is unfortunate. FWIW, as a reader I do find it genuinely more difficult to read. Capitalization serves a purpose for me, it's not arbitrary. It more clearly separates each sentence. I have to put in more work to read your thoughts without it. Anyway regardless, the rudeness sucks. Sorry on behalf of others who feel as I do.
    - jynelson 3y ago
      this is very kindly written, thank you :) frankly i don't want a larger audience, i didn't expect this to hit HN. i hadn't thought about it being harder to read for people in the project though, i'll do a poll on whether they find it distracting.
      - AlexAndScripts 3y ago
        Perhaps you could have a little button to programmatically insert capital letters?
  - WuxiFingerHold 3y ago
    >> so it's a good anti-asshole filter Oh, that is really a screwed thought. You think all people that don't agree with your writing format are assholes?
layer8 3y ago
It comes across as saying "fuck you" to your readers.
- sevagh 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - estebank 3y ago
    If you think that the project makes "fuck you" decisions at every turn, I invite you to peruse our issue tracker and PR queue. The burnout problems are because people care too much about making things better, and that is a neverending queue of tasks that seems to get longer and longer. Someone looking at the tools and documentation and thinking "these people don't care about their users", just makes it evident to me that no matter how much tears, blood and sweat we put on improving things there will be people who think you're either not doing anything or that you're actively harmful to the project. So what's the point then?
- drx 3y ago
  FWIW, not to me. Variety is the spice of life. It’s their blog, they should use whatever style they feel like using. Besides, is lowercase poetry a fuck you to the reader as well?
  - dmorgan81 3y ago
    Readers have different expectations for poetry than other forms of writing. We don't expect technical docs to be in the form of epic verse.
  - layer8 3y ago
    This is not an art exhibition. Conventions have a purpose. Capitalization is not a random spelling quirk, there’s a reason why we have it. The upvote balance on my comment confirms that it’s something to consider. The “fuck you” was in reference to the author’s comment, not just to his blog post.
dmorgan81 3y ago
If we could beam our thoughts directly into each other's head, we would. It would be the easiest way to convey information. Alas, we don't have that ability, so we resort to the written word. If your goal is to spread something interesting don't make it more difficult for your readers by hiding your point behind a style choice that directly contradicts the readers' expectations. Capitalization goes hand-in-hand with punctuation. A period is only part of the formula that tells a reader that a complete thought is done. Capitalizing the next letter is a signal that the next complete thought is starting. The reader doesn't have to continually guess whether the punctuation was incorrectly or accidentally placed. I pushed through your style choice and read the article because what you had to say was interesting and important. But not all readers are going to grant you the same courtesy. If you really want the widest distribution possible do your readers a favor and capitalize things according to the rules. You used paragraphs and correct spelling, as well as avoiding things like run-on sentences and sentence fragments. It's obvious you want people to your read your work. Whatever reasons you have for choosing to not use capitalization, those reasons are not as important as the message you are trying to spread.
- zozbot234 3y ago
  OP might be a non-English language speaker. Many languages don't use capitalization at all. Some languages don't even bother to put spaces between words, it's all driven by context.
  - freilanzer 3y ago
    thatsanonsensicalpointtomakesincethisisenglishandnotmongolian
  - dmorgan81 3y ago
    But if you're writing in English, or really any language, you should attempt to follow the rules of that language, especially if you want wide readership. Grammar rules might be arbitrary, but readers learn those rules and expect what they read to follow those rules.

Oh, hey! Thanks for chiming in. It's rare to see rejection of grammar rules on longer forms of writing, so it looked interesting. Any special reasons? Just because I like to know people through their choices and views. Didn't want to sound rude in the previous comment, so if I did, genuinely sorry (non-native speaker woes).

jynelson 3y ago
two reasons: 1. writing in lowercase is freeing. it reminds me that grammatical rules are arbitrary, and by extension other rules. "you can just do things." 2. people who are pedantic about this when it's clearly intentional are probably not people i want to interact with anyway, so it's a good anti-asshole filter (https://siderea.dreamwidth.org/1209794.html https://siderea.dreamwidth.org/1209794.html)
- bayindirh 3y ago
  That's interesting take, thanks. I'd love to chat with you further on this issue, but this is neither the place, nor the time. Maybe I'll mail you about this in the soon-ish future if that's OK for you. Cheers!
  - jynelson 3y ago
    sure, i'm happy to chat more :) my email is on my website
- prmph 3y ago
  Then wouldn't dispensing with other rules of grammar be even more "freeing"? This is both a genuine and rhetorical question. I guess it's like user interface design, where a cardinal rule is to be conservative, and not break user expectations unduly. Of course UI patterns and language evolves, but the evolution of changes should probably be gradual, and done for a justifiable purpose. In this case, I'm not sure the stylistic choice actually adds anything to the clarity or beauty of the writing.
- coldpie 3y ago
  You're going to get some strong/rude reactions from "the other side," which is unfortunate. FWIW, as a reader I do find it genuinely more difficult to read. Capitalization serves a purpose for me, it's not arbitrary. It more clearly separates each sentence. I have to put in more work to read your thoughts without it. Anyway regardless, the rudeness sucks. Sorry on behalf of others who feel as I do.
  - jynelson 3y ago
    this is very kindly written, thank you :) frankly i don't want a larger audience, i didn't expect this to hit HN. i hadn't thought about it being harder to read for people in the project though, i'll do a poll on whether they find it distracting.
    - AlexAndScripts 3y ago
      Perhaps you could have a little button to programmatically insert capital letters?
- WuxiFingerHold 3y ago
  >> so it's a good anti-asshole filter Oh, that is really a screwed thought. You think all people that don't agree with your writing format are assholes?

layer8 3y ago

It comes across as saying "fuck you" to your readers.

sevagh 3y ago
[flagged]
- estebank 3y ago
  If you think that the project makes "fuck you" decisions at every turn, I invite you to peruse our issue tracker and PR queue. The burnout problems are because people care too much about making things better, and that is a neverending queue of tasks that seems to get longer and longer. Someone looking at the tools and documentation and thinking "these people don't care about their users", just makes it evident to me that no matter how much tears, blood and sweat we put on improving things there will be people who think you're either not doing anything or that you're actively harmful to the project. So what's the point then?
drx 3y ago
FWIW, not to me. Variety is the spice of life. It’s their blog, they should use whatever style they feel like using. Besides, is lowercase poetry a fuck you to the reader as well?
- dmorgan81 3y ago
  Readers have different expectations for poetry than other forms of writing. We don't expect technical docs to be in the form of epic verse.
- layer8 3y ago
  This is not an art exhibition. Conventions have a purpose. Capitalization is not a random spelling quirk, there’s a reason why we have it. The upvote balance on my comment confirms that it’s something to consider. The “fuck you” was in reference to the author’s comment, not just to his blog post.

dmorgan81 3y ago

If we could beam our thoughts directly into each other's head, we would. It would be the easiest way to convey information. Alas, we don't have that ability, so we resort to the written word. If your goal is to spread something interesting don't make it more difficult for your readers by hiding your point behind a style choice that directly contradicts the readers' expectations. Capitalization goes hand-in-hand with punctuation. A period is only part of the formula that tells a reader that a complete thought is done. Capitalizing the next letter is a signal that the next complete thought is starting. The reader doesn't have to continually guess whether the punctuation was incorrectly or accidentally placed. I pushed through your style choice and read the article because what you had to say was interesting and important. But not all readers are going to grant you the same courtesy. If you really want the widest distribution possible do your readers a favor and capitalize things according to the rules. You used paragraphs and correct spelling, as well as avoiding things like run-on sentences and sentence fragments. It's obvious you want people to your read your work. Whatever reasons you have for choosing to not use capitalization, those reasons are not as important as the message you are trying to spread.

zozbot234 3y ago
OP might be a non-English language speaker. Many languages don't use capitalization at all. Some languages don't even bother to put spaces between words, it's all driven by context.
- freilanzer 3y ago
  thatsanonsensicalpointtomakesincethisisenglishandnotmongolian
- dmorgan81 3y ago
  But if you're writing in English, or really any language, you should attempt to follow the rules of that language, especially if you want wide readership. Grammar rules might be arbitrary, but readers learn those rules and expect what they read to follow those rules.