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I didn't read through the entire article, but I disagree with the overall premise. I remember being in college courses where the entire class would come to a s
by PH95VuimJjqBqy 3y ago
I didn't read through the entire article, but I disagree with the overall premise.
I remember being in college courses where the entire class would come to a standstill because 1 or 2 individuals just didn't get it. I can't count how many hours were wasted not getting into new material because of this issue, I would have much preferred the professor ask them to self-study and/or take advantage of the professor's office hours.
This is a case of "who do you harm?". The ones who aren't getting it or the ones who are but are forced to wait?
If you can't self-study then perhaps you should fail out. I myself had hearing problems while in college, couldn't hear the professor talking while in class. I still graduated with a double major in CS and Math because I passed all the coursework despite not being able to hear the professor speak (and this did cause problems for me on occassion when professors would call on me).
Having said all of that, I do have some sympathy. I once (late 90's) asked a professor why they didn't teach us many of the skills I was picking up on my own outside of class. His response is that they only have so much time so they must be directed in what they teach and therefore they strive to give a base of knowledge so that you can learn on your own.
OTOH, I once walked into a math class I had been basically skipping for a while only to have the professor out and he gave a group assignment for everyone to work on. I ended up having to argue with _everyone_ in that class (this despite me barely attending) that they're wrong. At one point one of the students claimed what they were doing is how the professor taught them to do it, I told them there's no way the professor taught them to do it that way since that's wrong. I ended up being right.
At some point people have to be there to learn, not to be spoon-fed knowledge.
- kayodelycaon 3y agoUnfortunately, this doesn’t stop at school. Half of my work meetings feel like this. :(
- filleduchaos 3y ago> I didn't read through the entire article, but I disagree with the overall premise. Actually reading through the article would probably have helped, considering that the author lays out that [part of] the problem is with professors refusing to help and/or denigrating students for needing help during office hours.
- PH95VuimJjqBqy 3y agoI did read through the article, I didn't read through _all_ of the article. There's a reason I said "overall premise". Perhaps "overarching premise" would have been better, but the point still stands. At some point it's the students responsibility to learn, it's the professors responsibility to offer the opportunity, not to offer guarantees. If a professor is not keeping office hours or denigrating students in any manner, that's something that needs to be taken up with the administration.
- kiba 3y agoSelf learning and self study is a skill poorly taught or not taught at all. There should be classes for that. This will reduces student's reliance on needing classes to learn materials while at the same time allowing universities to focus on teaching those who needs help the most. That say, there should be (separate) remedial classes for students to acquire knowledge.
- PH95VuimJjqBqy 3y agoI don't disagree, but how do you teach something that requires curiosity to the incurious? I don't think it's as simple as teaching techniques, there has to be motivation there.
- kiba 3y agoCuriosity is secondary to learning objectives such as being able to get a job, or simply getting a good grade. That would require restructuring our educational system and by extension our whole society. That's a tall order.
- PH95VuimJjqBqy 3y agoI don't think such escalation is necessary here. the incurious don't learn at the same rate as the curious, we can acknowledge that without making wild claims about how the whole of society needs to be torn down and rebuilt.
- tristor 3y agoI think there's a fundamental philosophical disagreement between people who have experience in advanced science and math subjects and those who are part of society at large. Society at large operates under a philosophy that /anyone/ can learn /anything/ with enough support systems, resources, and instruction in place. Those who have experience in advanced topics realize that there is very real intelligence & personality barrier of entry. If you don't have the intelligence and personality for these topics, the only way you will succeed is via pure grit, because the strongest motivations are intrinsic, not extrinsic. There is a reason there are so many people who claim to be programmers but can't do a FizzBuzz, because colleges manage to churn out thousands of graduates every year who don't have the intelligence and personality to be successful in a technical subject, but are doing it for the money only. Competence is not /only/ trained, it is training on top of talent (intelligence and personality). It requires an above average intelligence to be successful in advanced technical fields, and statistically speaking /most/ people do not have above average intelligence. Trying to solve this problem is likely incompatible with reality.