3 ms·

It’s actually one of the biggest lies we teach children through education. We put this little carrot of reductionist science in front of them that says we can e

It’s actually one of the biggest lies we teach children through education. We put this little carrot of reductionist science in front of them that says we can explain reality and go from incredibly reductionist ideas to increasingly less abstraction as their ability to compute and reason with these models inconsistency with reality begins to become more obvious. Just ignore friction, pretend it’s in a vacuum, etc. They’re not bold faced lies because it’s really the best we have about consistently explaining reality but I think we should let kids understand that even the latest and greatest reduction theories of reality won’t unlock truth everywhere, just allows you to peek in at some places and perform some degree of interpretation and prediction. It’s still quite valuable but we need to stop telling everyone we have the answers because we don’t. We almost masquerade around like a religion to some degree and people use that in the same way, “well science says” or “according to this data and paper” —- well yea, maybe, but also probably not.

FrustratedMonky 3y ago
What is up with people throwing out science these days? How did we go from: Our simplified model Ignored friction. to We have no idea what is real, throw away all technology and lets live in the trees.
- mistermann 3y ago
  How many people actually do this though, as opposed to how many people's models contain other people doing this?
  - FrustratedMonky 3y ago
    Was going to add some citations, but really there are too many. Just search 'anti-science' in the US. There are literally hundreds of articles, and studies slicing the data by any metric you desire. How can you have missed the US turning against science. It pre-dates Covid by a few years, and Covid just ramped it up. We are having measles outbreaks. Polio is coming back. The US is turning more towards a religious Fundamentalism, and science just doesn't fit their world view. (of course, i'm assuming you were making a comment about my internal model being that the US is turning anti-science, and based on models being imperfect, maybe i'm over-stating it.)
    - mistermann 3y ago
      > Just search 'anti-science' in the US. And marvel at the pseudoscientific claims, that purely coincidentally get a free pass from science. Don't forget though: the claim is "We have no idea what is real, throw away all technology and lets live in the trees". I am anti-science, but I am not the strawman described above - I wonder how many others are like me, and I also wonder how many in the pro-science camp actually care about such details, despite how important interpersonal relations are when it comes to people's beliefs (something fairly well studied by science, ironically). > It pre-dates Covid by a few years, and Covid just ramped it up. Was it the virus itself, or might it have been the mass psychological phenomenon surrounding covid that got people all worked up? > We are having measles outbreaks. Polio is coming back. The US is turning more towards a religious Fundamentalism, and science just doesn't fit their world view. That's right! I recommend scientists take off their fundamentalist hats and put their science hats back on, lest even more misfortune befall them, and us. > (of course, i'm assuming you were making a comment about my internal model being that the US is turning anti-science, and based on models being imperfect, maybe i'm over-stating it.) "I have a bee in my bonnet" is probably a decent description of my ire lol. Joking aside though: I am literally serious about what I say, and I propose it is very far from guaranteed that I do not have a valid and causally important point.
      - FrustratedMonky 3y ago
        Not sure where you are coming from. Science has the Scientific method for proving hypothesis. They developed a measles vaccine. Measles was almost eradicated. Deaths gone. Anti-Science proponents stopped taking the vaccine. Those people started getting sick with Measles again. And dying. That seems pretty clear. A->B. You don't have to invoke any mystical aspect of a belief in science that is causing misfortune. Same with Covid. Red states/counties that are more anti-science, did not take as much Covid vaccine. Their per-capital adoption was lower, and they had more sickness and death per-capita. You can graph it and look with your own eyes. No mystical beliefs happening.
        mistermann 3y ago

FrustratedMonky 3y ago

What is up with people throwing out science these days? How did we go from: Our simplified model Ignored friction. to We have no idea what is real, throw away all technology and lets live in the trees.

mistermann 3y ago
How many people actually do this though, as opposed to how many people's models contain other people doing this?
- FrustratedMonky 3y ago
  Was going to add some citations, but really there are too many. Just search 'anti-science' in the US. There are literally hundreds of articles, and studies slicing the data by any metric you desire. How can you have missed the US turning against science. It pre-dates Covid by a few years, and Covid just ramped it up. We are having measles outbreaks. Polio is coming back. The US is turning more towards a religious Fundamentalism, and science just doesn't fit their world view. (of course, i'm assuming you were making a comment about my internal model being that the US is turning anti-science, and based on models being imperfect, maybe i'm over-stating it.)
  - mistermann 3y ago
    > Just search 'anti-science' in the US. And marvel at the pseudoscientific claims, that purely coincidentally get a free pass from science. Don't forget though: the claim is "We have no idea what is real, throw away all technology and lets live in the trees". I am anti-science, but I am not the strawman described above - I wonder how many others are like me, and I also wonder how many in the pro-science camp actually care about such details, despite how important interpersonal relations are when it comes to people's beliefs (something fairly well studied by science, ironically). > It pre-dates Covid by a few years, and Covid just ramped it up. Was it the virus itself, or might it have been the mass psychological phenomenon surrounding covid that got people all worked up? > We are having measles outbreaks. Polio is coming back. The US is turning more towards a religious Fundamentalism, and science just doesn't fit their world view. That's right! I recommend scientists take off their fundamentalist hats and put their science hats back on, lest even more misfortune befall them, and us. > (of course, i'm assuming you were making a comment about my internal model being that the US is turning anti-science, and based on models being imperfect, maybe i'm over-stating it.) "I have a bee in my bonnet" is probably a decent description of my ire lol. Joking aside though: I am literally serious about what I say, and I propose it is very far from guaranteed that I do not have a valid and causally important point.
    - FrustratedMonky 3y ago
      Not sure where you are coming from. Science has the Scientific method for proving hypothesis. They developed a measles vaccine. Measles was almost eradicated. Deaths gone. Anti-Science proponents stopped taking the vaccine. Those people started getting sick with Measles again. And dying. That seems pretty clear. A->B. You don't have to invoke any mystical aspect of a belief in science that is causing misfortune. Same with Covid. Red states/counties that are more anti-science, did not take as much Covid vaccine. Their per-capital adoption was lower, and they had more sickness and death per-capita. You can graph it and look with your own eyes. No mystical beliefs happening.
      - mistermann 3y ago