4 ms·

Enjoy your homogenous, high trust society. We are all jealous.

Freak_NL 3y ago
Nah, don't worry. Theft at self checkouts is turning into a national hobby¹. 1: https://www.nrc.nl/nieuws/2024/01/05/de-diefstalcijfers-stijgen-wat-kunnen-supermarkten-daartege-doen-a4186135 https://www.nrc.nl/nieuws/2024/01/05/de-diefstalcijfers-stij...
- Pepe1vo 3y ago
  Every time I read one of these articles the naivety and tone-deafness from supermarkets over these self-checkouts amazes me. "In order to make more money we made customers self-report their purchases during a cost-of-living crisis while we were booking record high profits and now these customers are _under reporting_ their purchases, how dare they!!" They should've seen this coming from miles away.
  - icoder 3y ago
    The way you phrase it (but maybe I get you wrong) suggests that the customers are somehow in their (moral if not lawful) right to do this because of previous policies from the supermarkets. They (supermarkets) may have been wrong, but so is stealing. They don't cancel each other out, nor do two wrongs become a right. I'd say stealing is always a net negative effect for the whole. But if you're saying that the entire context explains a lot of the behaviour, and could possibly be predicted, then yes I agree.
  - arp242 3y ago
    > booking record high profits According to the opening paragraph of that article that's doesn't seem to be the case. €80 million in profit (with €100 million theft) is not all that much.
david-gpu 3y ago
> Enjoy your homogenous, high trust society "Homogeneous" in what way? Because in my experience the sort of "homogeneity" that leads to high trust is that of wealth/income, and it requires a generous social net.
- selfmodruntime 3y ago
  Turns out, like almost all things, homogeneity has positive aspects, too. Weirdly enough, this almost seems like forbidden knowledge depending on what political side you are on. Also, as Denmark recently discovered, homogeneity is not simply dependent on a social safety net but exists within a symbiotic relationship with the latter.
- BobaFloutist 3y ago
  One of the biggest hurdles to getting a social safety net past public perception in the US is that people are easily swayed against it if they're told that people of other races will benefit from it. A certain portion of the population automatically sorts any public benefit into a weird racial zero-sum game, where any support given to <people of that race> is a dollar specifically taken away from <people of my race>. It's a big part of why we've historically had such a hard time implementing any sort of reasonable social benefits, and why the much lauded Nordic countries started cutting down on theirs the second they got a significant (racially different) refugee population.
  - Slamidan 3y ago
    [dead]
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- Mountain_Skies 3y ago
  Most ways, as the research of Robert Putnam has documented well. https://wcfia.harvard.edu/publications/downside-diversity https://wcfia.harvard.edu/publications/downside-diversity
owlninja 3y ago
Sam's Club does this in the US and it is great.
logicchains 3y ago
Dubai also has self-checkout machines that don't require you to weigh anything, just scan and go, and it's an extremely heterogeneous, low-trust society. People are just very afraid of the police and being deported.
- Mountain_Skies 3y ago
  Seems to work similarly in Singapore. Low trust can work when there are harsh punishments for violations. But do we really want to live in that type of society?
  - polski-g 3y ago
    Do I want to live in a society in which criminals suffer the consequences of their crime? Is this a serious question?
arp242 3y ago
Except it's neither homogenous nor high trust.
- alexanderchr 3y ago
  It's not exactly Japan-level high trust, but it is compared to most other countries in the world.
  - arp242 3y ago
    It really depends; in some areas it's exceedingly low-trust, almost paranoid. In some other areas it's probably not too bad. Previous: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36933489 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36933489 I used to live in Indonesia and things are much more "high trust" in many aspects. On the other hand Indonesia also has a lot of problems with corruption and that sort of thing. "High trust/low trust" is too simplistic. I don't have 200 other countries to compare it to, but by and large, Western countries are much less high-trust in many areas than people assume. This often becomes painfully obvious once you stray outside of the "standard happy path".
netsharc 3y ago
Whenever I see anyone use "homogeneous" in this context I always consider them a racist... Meanwhile Netherlands elected an anti-immigration right-wing government in their last elections: https://time.com/6339173/dutch-election-results-geert-wilders-far-right-netherlands-europe/ https://time.com/6339173/dutch-election-results-geert-wilder...
- sime2009 3y ago
  23% did, just to be clear.
- selfmodruntime 3y ago
  Being conservative on immigration (and in general) is not necessarily the product of racism.

Nah, don't worry. Theft at self checkouts is turning into a national hobby¹. 1: https://www.nrc.nl/nieuws/2024/01/05/de-diefstalcijfers-stijgen-wat-kunnen-supermarkten-daartege-doen-a4186135 https://www.nrc.nl/nieuws/2024/01/05/de-diefstalcijfers-stij...

Pepe1vo 3y ago
Every time I read one of these articles the naivety and tone-deafness from supermarkets over these self-checkouts amazes me. "In order to make more money we made customers self-report their purchases during a cost-of-living crisis while we were booking record high profits and now these customers are _under reporting_ their purchases, how dare they!!" They should've seen this coming from miles away.
- icoder 3y ago
  The way you phrase it (but maybe I get you wrong) suggests that the customers are somehow in their (moral if not lawful) right to do this because of previous policies from the supermarkets. They (supermarkets) may have been wrong, but so is stealing. They don't cancel each other out, nor do two wrongs become a right. I'd say stealing is always a net negative effect for the whole. But if you're saying that the entire context explains a lot of the behaviour, and could possibly be predicted, then yes I agree.
- arp242 3y ago
  > booking record high profits According to the opening paragraph of that article that's doesn't seem to be the case. €80 million in profit (with €100 million theft) is not all that much.

david-gpu 3y ago

> Enjoy your homogenous, high trust society "Homogeneous" in what way? Because in my experience the sort of "homogeneity" that leads to high trust is that of wealth/income, and it requires a generous social net.

selfmodruntime 3y ago
Turns out, like almost all things, homogeneity has positive aspects, too. Weirdly enough, this almost seems like forbidden knowledge depending on what political side you are on. Also, as Denmark recently discovered, homogeneity is not simply dependent on a social safety net but exists within a symbiotic relationship with the latter.
BobaFloutist 3y ago
One of the biggest hurdles to getting a social safety net past public perception in the US is that people are easily swayed against it if they're told that people of other races will benefit from it. A certain portion of the population automatically sorts any public benefit into a weird racial zero-sum game, where any support given to <people of that race> is a dollar specifically taken away from <people of my race>. It's a big part of why we've historically had such a hard time implementing any sort of reasonable social benefits, and why the much lauded Nordic countries started cutting down on theirs the second they got a significant (racially different) refugee population.
- Slamidan 3y ago
  [dead]
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
Mountain_Skies 3y ago
Most ways, as the research of Robert Putnam has documented well. https://wcfia.harvard.edu/publications/downside-diversity https://wcfia.harvard.edu/publications/downside-diversity

owlninja 3y ago

Sam's Club does this in the US and it is great.

logicchains 3y ago

Dubai also has self-checkout machines that don't require you to weigh anything, just scan and go, and it's an extremely heterogeneous, low-trust society. People are just very afraid of the police and being deported.

Mountain_Skies 3y ago
Seems to work similarly in Singapore. Low trust can work when there are harsh punishments for violations. But do we really want to live in that type of society?
- polski-g 3y ago
  Do I want to live in a society in which criminals suffer the consequences of their crime? Is this a serious question?

arp242 3y ago

Except it's neither homogenous nor high trust.

alexanderchr 3y ago
It's not exactly Japan-level high trust, but it is compared to most other countries in the world.
- arp242 3y ago
  It really depends; in some areas it's exceedingly low-trust, almost paranoid. In some other areas it's probably not too bad. Previous: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36933489 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36933489 I used to live in Indonesia and things are much more "high trust" in many aspects. On the other hand Indonesia also has a lot of problems with corruption and that sort of thing. "High trust/low trust" is too simplistic. I don't have 200 other countries to compare it to, but by and large, Western countries are much less high-trust in many areas than people assume. This often becomes painfully obvious once you stray outside of the "standard happy path".

netsharc 3y ago

Whenever I see anyone use "homogeneous" in this context I always consider them a racist... Meanwhile Netherlands elected an anti-immigration right-wing government in their last elections: https://time.com/6339173/dutch-election-results-geert-wilders-far-right-netherlands-europe/ https://time.com/6339173/dutch-election-results-geert-wilder...

sime2009 3y ago
23% did, just to be clear.
selfmodruntime 3y ago
Being conservative on immigration (and in general) is not necessarily the product of racism.