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Another random app store anecdote: way back when (2010?) Adobe made a feature where you could publish flash content as an iOS app. Like you build a flash game,

Another random app store anecdote: way back when (2010?) Adobe made a feature where you could publish flash content as an iOS app. Like you build a flash game, hit publish, and an .ipa file comes out. So the feature goes into open beta, and a bunch of flash devs make iPhone apps, they work fine, they get accepted into the app store, users are using them, everybody's happy. Then a few days before the feature was scheduled to leave beta and be formally supported, Apple changed the app store terms to disallow it, by requiring that apps be "originally written" in certain languages like objective-C or C++. Nothing to do with what the app did or how it worked, and no definition for what "originally written" specifically meant. And there were lots of other technologies for building apps by then, so of course they all freaked (though AFAIK Apple never actually enforced the new terms for anything besides flash). Anyway shortly afterward Adobe reverted the app-publishing feature, and then a few months later Apple quietly reverted the terms to what they were before.

toyg 3y ago
Apple is very much a subscriber to the Darth Vader School of Business: "I'm altering the deal; pray that I don't alter it any further."
- mdhb 3y ago
  You would think that as the web platform is starting to pick up things like WASM and many new capabilities that there are an extremely large set of apps all of a sudden where you would be insane to think about - writing it in a different language that only really runs on one operating system - pay $99/yr for the privilege - at any point and for any reason you can be cut off from reaching your audience - you have to pay them 30% of your revenue (not profit) for any money your application makes - you can’t make updates in a timely manner - you have close to zero avenues of recourse if you disagree with any of this - the deal can change at any time and you don’t get a say in it. Why the fuck would anyone choose that option in 2024 if they didn’t have to? It’s no wonder Apple went out of their way to try and cripple the web for over a decade now, it was only legal action from the EU that forced them to staff Safari properly about two years ago. And even now, they still take any opportunity they can to make it look unattractive such as hiding the ability to install a PWA deep in a series of unrelated menus. That’s a hostage taking business. Get out of that ecosystem if you can
  - JimDabell 3y ago
    > And even now, they still take any opportunity they can to make it look unattractive such as hiding the ability to install a PWA deep in a series of unrelated menus. That isn’t true. It takes two taps. You tap the share button, then you tap Add to Home Screen. That’s it. That’s not “hidden deep in a series of unrelated menus”. It’s a top-level option. And don’t complain about the “share” button – that’s just a bad name for what iOS users understand as the “Send/Put/Open this somewhere else” button. It makes total sense if you are an iOS user, don’t be misled by what people call it. People tap it when they want to “do something” with what they are looking at. It’s exactly the button you’d tap if you wanted to add a PWA to your home screen.
    - mdhb 3y ago
      Go and find a random person on the street and ask them to install a website on an iOS device and watch what happens. It is absolutely set up in such a way that normal people not only can not do it but don’t even know it’s possible. I should be able to trigger an install prompt as a developer at a minimum.
      - troupo 3y ago
        > Go and find a random person on the street and ask them to install a website on an iOS device and watch what happens. Go and ask a random person to install a website on any OS, and watch what happens
        mdhb 3y ago
        You do understand that the main thrust of my argument here is that it doesn’t have to be like that correct? I should be able to prompt the user to install and it would just work.
        plagiarist 3y ago
        I'm not receptive to allowing websites to prompt me for any reason whatever after observing everyone's behavior for the last two decades.
JimDabell 3y ago
> So the feature goes into open beta, and a bunch of flash devs make iPhone apps, they work fine We tried this at work at the time. They absolutely did not work fine. The best I can say about them is that they ran, mostly.
rchaud 3y ago
This was the topic of Steve Jobs' infamous "Thoughts on Flash" memo, which was essentially a blueorint for the coming iOS App Store walled garden strategy.

toyg 3y ago

Apple is very much a subscriber to the Darth Vader School of Business: "I'm altering the deal; pray that I don't alter it any further."

mdhb 3y ago
You would think that as the web platform is starting to pick up things like WASM and many new capabilities that there are an extremely large set of apps all of a sudden where you would be insane to think about - writing it in a different language that only really runs on one operating system - pay $99/yr for the privilege - at any point and for any reason you can be cut off from reaching your audience - you have to pay them 30% of your revenue (not profit) for any money your application makes - you can’t make updates in a timely manner - you have close to zero avenues of recourse if you disagree with any of this - the deal can change at any time and you don’t get a say in it. Why the fuck would anyone choose that option in 2024 if they didn’t have to? It’s no wonder Apple went out of their way to try and cripple the web for over a decade now, it was only legal action from the EU that forced them to staff Safari properly about two years ago. And even now, they still take any opportunity they can to make it look unattractive such as hiding the ability to install a PWA deep in a series of unrelated menus. That’s a hostage taking business. Get out of that ecosystem if you can
- JimDabell 3y ago
  > And even now, they still take any opportunity they can to make it look unattractive such as hiding the ability to install a PWA deep in a series of unrelated menus. That isn’t true. It takes two taps. You tap the share button, then you tap Add to Home Screen. That’s it. That’s not “hidden deep in a series of unrelated menus”. It’s a top-level option. And don’t complain about the “share” button – that’s just a bad name for what iOS users understand as the “Send/Put/Open this somewhere else” button. It makes total sense if you are an iOS user, don’t be misled by what people call it. People tap it when they want to “do something” with what they are looking at. It’s exactly the button you’d tap if you wanted to add a PWA to your home screen.
  - mdhb 3y ago
    Go and find a random person on the street and ask them to install a website on an iOS device and watch what happens. It is absolutely set up in such a way that normal people not only can not do it but don’t even know it’s possible. I should be able to trigger an install prompt as a developer at a minimum.
    - troupo 3y ago
      > Go and find a random person on the street and ask them to install a website on an iOS device and watch what happens. Go and ask a random person to install a website on any OS, and watch what happens
      - mdhb 3y ago
        You do understand that the main thrust of my argument here is that it doesn’t have to be like that correct? I should be able to prompt the user to install and it would just work.
        plagiarist 3y ago
        I'm not receptive to allowing websites to prompt me for any reason whatever after observing everyone's behavior for the last two decades.

JimDabell 3y ago

> So the feature goes into open beta, and a bunch of flash devs make iPhone apps, they work fine We tried this at work at the time. They absolutely did not work fine. The best I can say about them is that they ran, mostly.

rchaud 3y ago

This was the topic of Steve Jobs' infamous "Thoughts on Flash" memo, which was essentially a blueorint for the coming iOS App Store walled garden strategy.