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My assumption would be: People here are of the curious kind. The kind that likes to learn, likes to know when they are wrong, likes to put themselves into other

by atoav 3y ago

My assumption would be: People here are of the curious kind. The kind that likes to learn, likes to know when they are wrong, likes to put themselves into other perspectives, figure things out etc. The typical incel is the antithesis to that. Their misery is always someone elses fault, they don't take the perspective of the other side, they over-analyze, but always the others, never themselves. The HN crowd dislikes that, because this is the worst pitfall somewhat intelligent people can fall in: misleading yourself with clever theories because it feels better than admiting fault. And we all know that pitfall and hate it when we eventually realize we did this to ourselves. The typical behaviour connected to incels is the embodiment of this fault. Being self-critical is hard, but it also benefits you in the long run. And on the gender disparity: women tend to do this less (or at least without the public-facing self-pity) and most importantly don't tend to not kill people because of it. Don't get me wrong, I wish every Incel the best. But at least to me this is a case of "I can't help you before you get serious about helping yourself" and that involves searching for your own faults, being self-critical and self-aware. The problem isn't that incels are not shown the door, the problem is they won't walk through it — and they can only walk through it themselves.

yorwba 3y ago
> The typical incel is the antithesis to that. Their misery is always someone elses fault, they don't take the perspective of the other side, they over-analyze, but always the others, never themselves. According to the paper, incels (like non-incel single men) mostly blame internal factors (i.e. their own deficiencies) for their lack of dating success.
surgical_fire 3y ago
> People here are of the curious kind. The kind that likes to learn, likes to know when they are wrong, likes to put themselves into other perspectives, figure things out etc. That's very charitable. I find this a community of people that think very highly of themselves, and that outside of very narrow technical topics, is prone to speak with a lot of false authority of things they understand very little about. "Those other people do it wrong. But not us, we do it right".
- atoav 3y ago
  I did not say that people on here are correct, I said they like to be. And when you judge others you always judge them the hardest when it comes to things with which you have a hard time yourself. Now you could probably draw many connections between religous and/or poltical movements and the people they are attacking using that thought — but the details are left as an exercise to the reader.
zelphirkalt 3y ago
> Don't get me wrong, I wish every Incel the best. But at least to me this is a case of "I can't help you before you get serious about helping yourself" and that involves searching for your own faults, being self-critical and self-aware. The problem isn't that incels are not shown the door, the problem is they won't walk through it — and they can only walk through it themselves. I think it is a spectrum. If one only searches for mistakes one has made or is making based on external feedback, it basically means, that one lets others (society, social group of people around the person) decide how one is going to live and behave. Some people just stick to their principles and when these go against what others expect, it does not necessarily mean, that they made a mistake. It just means, that they don't match with those other people. There does not necessarily have to be something wrong. Such principles can also self-exclude people from other groups of people. For example: lets say one person is a non-smoker. They won't be around smokers much. Or another one: Don't like dancing? Well, that person will likely not be with a partner, who is into dancing. Many preferences and principles (or the lack of those) make a person and steer a person to have or not have contact with other groups of people. It can happen, that there are very few persons of other sex around them. So I guess a balance of listening to external feedback and ones own convictions is probably key to be well liked by fellow human beings and yet not become externally controlled.

by atoav 3y ago

yorwba 3y ago

> The typical incel is the antithesis to that. Their misery is always someone elses fault, they don't take the perspective of the other side, they over-analyze, but always the others, never themselves. According to the paper, incels (like non-incel single men) mostly blame internal factors (i.e. their own deficiencies) for their lack of dating success.

surgical_fire 3y ago

> People here are of the curious kind. The kind that likes to learn, likes to know when they are wrong, likes to put themselves into other perspectives, figure things out etc. That's very charitable. I find this a community of people that think very highly of themselves, and that outside of very narrow technical topics, is prone to speak with a lot of false authority of things they understand very little about. "Those other people do it wrong. But not us, we do it right".

atoav 3y ago
I did not say that people on here are correct, I said they like to be. And when you judge others you always judge them the hardest when it comes to things with which you have a hard time yourself. Now you could probably draw many connections between religous and/or poltical movements and the people they are attacking using that thought — but the details are left as an exercise to the reader.

zelphirkalt 3y ago

> Don't get me wrong, I wish every Incel the best. But at least to me this is a case of "I can't help you before you get serious about helping yourself" and that involves searching for your own faults, being self-critical and self-aware. The problem isn't that incels are not shown the door, the problem is they won't walk through it — and they can only walk through it themselves. I think it is a spectrum. If one only searches for mistakes one has made or is making based on external feedback, it basically means, that one lets others (society, social group of people around the person) decide how one is going to live and behave. Some people just stick to their principles and when these go against what others expect, it does not necessarily mean, that they made a mistake. It just means, that they don't match with those other people. There does not necessarily have to be something wrong. Such principles can also self-exclude people from other groups of people. For example: lets say one person is a non-smoker. They won't be around smokers much. Or another one: Don't like dancing? Well, that person will likely not be with a partner, who is into dancing. Many preferences and principles (or the lack of those) make a person and steer a person to have or not have contact with other groups of people. It can happen, that there are very few persons of other sex around them. So I guess a balance of listening to external feedback and ones own convictions is probably key to be well liked by fellow human beings and yet not become externally controlled.