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That's the world view that my family came from - very leftist and peace loving. "If only everyone put down their guns there would be no need etc etc". But it'
by andrewstuart 3y ago
That's the world view that my family came from - very leftist and peace loving.
"If only everyone put down their guns there would be no need etc etc".
But it's not the world we live in - we live in a military world - that's real and not a hope/fantasy about a different civilisation without war or weapons. We have to have a society suited to the world we live in.
And by the way I remain very much left wing and at the same time extremely pragmatic about the need for a nation to defend itself.
- amrocha 3y agoYou talk about a country defending itself as if that's what militaries do. The US military has been intervening in the world stage for 80 years at this point. Take any country below the equator and chances are the US has probably used its military against it. That's not defence. You don't collaborate with that actor if you think defence is the goal.
- eep_social 3y agoNot Australia, New Zealand, or South Africa!
- andrewstuart 3y agoWell England did nuke Australia. But we’re friends so thats OK. If we set that aside as an aberration, then yes your right.
- eep_social 3y agoNo harm in a little nuclear explosion between friends.
- TulliusCicero 3y agoSo pushing Iraq out of Kuwait in 1991 wasn't defense? Fascinating worldview you got there.
- lasfter 3y agoLet's disregard that the USA encouraged Sadam to invade Kuwait and implied he would face no recourse if he did. Would you have been okay with Russia going to Iraq's aid when the USA invaded the second time? You think it's fine if Russia not only fought American troops in Iraq, but bombed the USA as well? That would have been defense by your logic, since that's exactly what the USA did to Iraq in 1991. Fascinating worldview indeed.
- Paradigma11 3y ago"Let's disregard that the USA encouraged Sadam to invade Kuwait and implied he would face no recourse if he did." That never happened. The only thing that happened was SH having a talk to a US diplomat who was noncommittal because there was no official position on it yet. Because nobody expected SH to do something that stupid.
- bigstrat2003 3y agoIs Kuwait the US? No. Then by definition it cannot be defense to take military action over there.
- TulliusCicero 3y agoDefense of another isn't defense now? In what universe?
- hnfong 3y agoIn a sane universe. You could rephrase ALL invasions as "defense of another". For example, Putin's excuse to invade Ukraine was 'to "protect the people" of the Russian-controlled breakaway republics.' Otherwise you're just arguing that countries can point at some random object and say "that's under my watch" and bring armies to fight for that thing. In a sane universe that's called an invasion. Whether the invasion is morally justified or not is another matter.
- 3y ago
- dbtc 3y agoBe pragmatic for the present, but also spare some hope for the future.
- jart 3y agoIf a nation needs to defend itself then it's already lost, because that means it was weak enough that someone else thought they could win by attacking it. Sun Tzu said a supreme nation would subjugate its enemies without needing to fight them.