5 ms·

This is a weird take. It’s similar to saying workers pre unionisation and labour movements were complicit in enabling poor working conditions.

by jamil7 3y ago

jacquesm 3y ago
App store developers are suppliers, they don't work for Apple nor do they have to work for Apple. Technically Apple re-sells their product. But they could and should unite in order to increase their bargaining power. You see the same with every supermarket chain. But what I think would happen is that there would be enough hold-outs from such an effort that Apple would come out on top because the players in the eco -system are more in competition with each other than that they really mind Apple. They want to pay Apple less but they want to put their competition out of business even more...
- threeseed 3y ago
  There are tens of millions [1] of App Store developers you will need to coordinate. Where you think of organising a rally or just an email campaign ? [1] https://www.theverge.com/2023/5/19/23730302/apple-app-store-transparency-report-2022# https://www.theverge.com/2023/5/19/23730302/apple-app-store-...
  - jacquesm 3y ago
    In the age of the internet I think reaching tens of millions of individuals is not as hard as it used to be. A Reddit post announcing a boycott of the App store by a few hundred or a few thousand initial App developers with enough lead time for the message to spread would be a fine starting point. I'm sure it would be all over the globe by morning. I just posited the idea here in NL at 2:30 in the morning and you, somewhere else entirely have already heard of it. That mechanism could be vastly improved upon but I think the principle is sound as your average cat meme has proven thousands of times by now.
    - BadHumans 3y ago
      You should get started on organizing it and let us know how it goes.
      - jacquesm 3y ago
        My solution is much simpler: I've opted out of all App eco systems entirely because I think Google and Apple already have enough power as it is. My software is free, free to download and free to run.
    - ericmay 3y ago
      I'm not convinced that this would result in lower prices for me as a customer. The current prices that work for a company to stay in business and make a nice profit (think anyone from Netflix, to whoever makes Clash of Clans) show that there is a willingness to pay those prices. If a developer union of sorts succeeds in negotiating down Apple's charge, there is absolutely 0 chance that this cost savings will make its way on the whole to consumers precisely because developers have already proven that customers are willing to take a higher price. As an end customer I think it's a good thing if an indie developers get more money in the abstract. I don't think I care if it means that Netflix gets to keep more of their money instead of Apple. I'm much more sympathetic toward lower fees for smaller companies. Once you are the size of Meta, Google, Apple, Amazon, Netflix, Spotify, etc. it's just jostling between multi-billion (trillion) companies and I'm not really concerned one way or the other, especially if these actions result in more annoying behavior that I have to deal with, like multiple app stores, increase in spam and ads and spying, and the dissolution of the power of features like Sign in with Apple that allow me to generate fake email addresses.
      - k8svet 3y ago
        Ah yes, this again. "We can only have nice things because of the golden handcuffs Apple has blessed us with!". Except that there's plenty of counter examples. And you might not care, but thousands of independent app developers getting bent over the barrel by Apple certainly care. In my view, it's not even really about the end consumer price.
  - k8svet 3y ago
    Ah yes, better that we throw our hands up in the air, declare it unsolvable and acquiesce to big tech.
    - jacquesm 3y ago
      It's much worse than that, they're actively enabling all of this.
      - threeseed 3y ago
        That's a great approach to convince developers to get on board with your strike. This is all their fault.
        jacquesm 3y ago
        It is. I'm not an App store developer for a reason. There is no way that you can get me to carry water for Apple or Google by putting them in between the users of my work and me. Ditto Microsoft. And I'm perfectly ok with App store developers doing what they are doing and making lots of money. But there is a price tag and they either must be ok with that or like me they'd opt-out. So I've been 'striking' for as long as I've had App ideas and things that I could have fielded as an App but ended up just putting on the web. I don't need to convince anybody.
- scarface_74 3y ago
  Do you think that the King.com and the other large companies that make all of their money by selling coins for pay to win games are going to join the boycott? It came out in the Epic trial that’s where 90% of the revenue comes from. It’s not from small indy developers
  - jacquesm 3y ago
    Probably not.
colechristensen 3y ago
They were. You teach people how to treat you. If you congratulate people for working to improve their conditions you have to say they had a hand in the bad conditions before.
Levitz 3y ago
Unknowingly so maybe, but they must have been, no?
fshbbdssbbgdd 3y ago
That is a pretty common accusation during labor campaigns, that’s why they sing “Which side are you on?”

This is a weird take. It’s similar to saying workers pre unionisation and labour movements were complicit in enabling poor working conditions.

by jamil7 3y ago

This is a weird take. It’s similar to saying workers pre unionisation and labour movements were complicit in enabling poor working conditions.

jacquesm 3y ago

App store developers are suppliers, they don't work for Apple nor do they have to work for Apple. Technically Apple re-sells their product. But they could and should unite in order to increase their bargaining power. You see the same with every supermarket chain. But what I think would happen is that there would be enough hold-outs from such an effort that Apple would come out on top because the players in the eco -system are more in competition with each other than that they really mind Apple. They want to pay Apple less but they want to put their competition out of business even more...

threeseed 3y ago
There are tens of millions [1] of App Store developers you will need to coordinate. Where you think of organising a rally or just an email campaign ? [1] https://www.theverge.com/2023/5/19/23730302/apple-app-store-transparency-report-2022# https://www.theverge.com/2023/5/19/23730302/apple-app-store-...
- jacquesm 3y ago
  In the age of the internet I think reaching tens of millions of individuals is not as hard as it used to be. A Reddit post announcing a boycott of the App store by a few hundred or a few thousand initial App developers with enough lead time for the message to spread would be a fine starting point. I'm sure it would be all over the globe by morning. I just posited the idea here in NL at 2:30 in the morning and you, somewhere else entirely have already heard of it. That mechanism could be vastly improved upon but I think the principle is sound as your average cat meme has proven thousands of times by now.
  - BadHumans 3y ago
    You should get started on organizing it and let us know how it goes.
    - jacquesm 3y ago
      My solution is much simpler: I've opted out of all App eco systems entirely because I think Google and Apple already have enough power as it is. My software is free, free to download and free to run.
  - ericmay 3y ago
    I'm not convinced that this would result in lower prices for me as a customer. The current prices that work for a company to stay in business and make a nice profit (think anyone from Netflix, to whoever makes Clash of Clans) show that there is a willingness to pay those prices. If a developer union of sorts succeeds in negotiating down Apple's charge, there is absolutely 0 chance that this cost savings will make its way on the whole to consumers precisely because developers have already proven that customers are willing to take a higher price. As an end customer I think it's a good thing if an indie developers get more money in the abstract. I don't think I care if it means that Netflix gets to keep more of their money instead of Apple. I'm much more sympathetic toward lower fees for smaller companies. Once you are the size of Meta, Google, Apple, Amazon, Netflix, Spotify, etc. it's just jostling between multi-billion (trillion) companies and I'm not really concerned one way or the other, especially if these actions result in more annoying behavior that I have to deal with, like multiple app stores, increase in spam and ads and spying, and the dissolution of the power of features like Sign in with Apple that allow me to generate fake email addresses.
    - k8svet 3y ago
      Ah yes, this again. "We can only have nice things because of the golden handcuffs Apple has blessed us with!". Except that there's plenty of counter examples. And you might not care, but thousands of independent app developers getting bent over the barrel by Apple certainly care. In my view, it's not even really about the end consumer price.
- k8svet 3y ago
  Ah yes, better that we throw our hands up in the air, declare it unsolvable and acquiesce to big tech.
  - jacquesm 3y ago
    It's much worse than that, they're actively enabling all of this.
    - threeseed 3y ago
      That's a great approach to convince developers to get on board with your strike. This is all their fault.
      - jacquesm 3y ago
        It is. I'm not an App store developer for a reason. There is no way that you can get me to carry water for Apple or Google by putting them in between the users of my work and me. Ditto Microsoft. And I'm perfectly ok with App store developers doing what they are doing and making lots of money. But there is a price tag and they either must be ok with that or like me they'd opt-out. So I've been 'striking' for as long as I've had App ideas and things that I could have fielded as an App but ended up just putting on the web. I don't need to convince anybody.
scarface_74 3y ago
Do you think that the King.com and the other large companies that make all of their money by selling coins for pay to win games are going to join the boycott? It came out in the Epic trial that’s where 90% of the revenue comes from. It’s not from small indy developers
- jacquesm 3y ago
  Probably not.

colechristensen 3y ago

They were. You teach people how to treat you. If you congratulate people for working to improve their conditions you have to say they had a hand in the bad conditions before.

Levitz 3y ago

Unknowingly so maybe, but they must have been, no?

fshbbdssbbgdd 3y ago

That is a pretty common accusation during labor campaigns, that’s why they sing “Which side are you on?”