3 ms·

There are already GNU/Linux phones running a FLOSS, desktop OS, without walled gardens: Librem 5 and Pinephone.

kelnos 3y ago
Unfortunately they don't have the market share to have the clout to do a lot of things users really want. I run Linux on my laptop as my daily-driver and sole OS; I've been mostly doing this for more than 20 years now (with some brief dalliances with macOS here and there that never stuck). But my phone runs Google's stock Pixel version of Android. While there are other examples, a single example I think suffices: Google Pay. I like contactless payments, and I like not having to fish around for a credit card (or just not having to bring a credit card, say if I'm out for a run). What are the chances of a Google/Apple-Pay-workalike app ever appearing on the Librem 5 or Pinephone? Seems pretty slim to me. I'm not saying these phones have no value; clearly they do. And the world is better off with their existence. But they are not a realistic choice for most people.
- fsflover 3y ago
  > I like contactless payments, and I like not having to fish around for a credit card Yes, unfortunately, if you want the freedom and control, you have to pay for that with some compromises. > What are the chances of a Google/Apple-Pay-workalike app ever appearing on the Librem 5 or Pinephone? Waydroid allows to run Android apps. It works fine on my Librem 5, unless apps require verified Android environment. Unfortunately Librem 5 has no NFC at all. AFAIK Pinephone offered a case which enabled NFC functionality.
  - hot_gril 3y ago
    Credit cards and contactless payments alike are a far bigger form of control than phone OSes. Bank, government, and advertisers watching your purchases, building a profile, taking their cut, and banning any buyers/sellers they want. In real life, not just digital. If I were worried enough about control to use a FOSS phone, I'd for sure be paying with cash too. But I'm not. Also, cell carrier will be tracking your location and giving that info out. Not sure if that can be avoided, but maybe a prepaid plan helps anonymize it.
    - fsflover 3y ago
      This underestimates the freedom you get with such a phone by a lot. It's not just about tracking but also about being able to run what you want how you want it and having full access to your device like with a desktop: https://forums.puri.sm/t/librem-5-daily-driven-in-professional-use-success/22303 https://forums.puri.sm/t/librem-5-daily-driven-in-profession...
      - hot_gril 3y ago
        I have a desktop and am familiar with what it offers. Run arbitrary code on it, and modify the hardware if I really want. I used a jailbroken iPhone for years, which is just the software part.
stonogo 3y ago
But neither of them function reliably as a telephone (I own both), although the Librem 5 is much closer to that goal than the Pinephone.
- fsflover 3y ago
  Perhaps you need to update your modem firmware. See the review I linked in another comment.
  - stonogo 3y ago
    It's been a multi-year slog of updating this, tweaking that, and patching the other. I've moved on to working devices.
    - fsflover 3y ago
      Everything except the modem firmware is updated automatically, without tweaking, and getting better every month. I didn't tweak anything, just waited for updates. If you were in a hurry, you had to tweak everything, yes.
      - stonogo 3y ago
        Glad you had a good experience. I didn't. I still don't consider either device a serious contender. "Just wait" is not what people want to hear when their phone doesn't work. I envy the people who can introduce such obstacles into their own lives; I, and many others, cannot.
        fsflover 3y ago
        Fair enough. However, today you can already use Librem 5 as a daily driver for most tasks: https://forums.puri.sm/t/librem-5-daily-driven-in-professional-use-success/22303/40 https://forums.puri.sm/t/librem-5-daily-driven-in-profession...

Unfortunately they don't have the market share to have the clout to do a lot of things users really want. I run Linux on my laptop as my daily-driver and sole OS; I've been mostly doing this for more than 20 years now (with some brief dalliances with macOS here and there that never stuck). But my phone runs Google's stock Pixel version of Android. While there are other examples, a single example I think suffices: Google Pay. I like contactless payments, and I like not having to fish around for a credit card (or just not having to bring a credit card, say if I'm out for a run). What are the chances of a Google/Apple-Pay-workalike app ever appearing on the Librem 5 or Pinephone? Seems pretty slim to me. I'm not saying these phones have no value; clearly they do. And the world is better off with their existence. But they are not a realistic choice for most people.

fsflover 3y ago
> I like contactless payments, and I like not having to fish around for a credit card Yes, unfortunately, if you want the freedom and control, you have to pay for that with some compromises. > What are the chances of a Google/Apple-Pay-workalike app ever appearing on the Librem 5 or Pinephone? Waydroid allows to run Android apps. It works fine on my Librem 5, unless apps require verified Android environment. Unfortunately Librem 5 has no NFC at all. AFAIK Pinephone offered a case which enabled NFC functionality.
- hot_gril 3y ago
  Credit cards and contactless payments alike are a far bigger form of control than phone OSes. Bank, government, and advertisers watching your purchases, building a profile, taking their cut, and banning any buyers/sellers they want. In real life, not just digital. If I were worried enough about control to use a FOSS phone, I'd for sure be paying with cash too. But I'm not. Also, cell carrier will be tracking your location and giving that info out. Not sure if that can be avoided, but maybe a prepaid plan helps anonymize it.
  - fsflover 3y ago
    This underestimates the freedom you get with such a phone by a lot. It's not just about tracking but also about being able to run what you want how you want it and having full access to your device like with a desktop: https://forums.puri.sm/t/librem-5-daily-driven-in-professional-use-success/22303 https://forums.puri.sm/t/librem-5-daily-driven-in-profession...
    - hot_gril 3y ago
      I have a desktop and am familiar with what it offers. Run arbitrary code on it, and modify the hardware if I really want. I used a jailbroken iPhone for years, which is just the software part.

stonogo 3y ago

But neither of them function reliably as a telephone (I own both), although the Librem 5 is much closer to that goal than the Pinephone.

fsflover 3y ago
Perhaps you need to update your modem firmware. See the review I linked in another comment.
- stonogo 3y ago
  It's been a multi-year slog of updating this, tweaking that, and patching the other. I've moved on to working devices.
  - fsflover 3y ago
    Everything except the modem firmware is updated automatically, without tweaking, and getting better every month. I didn't tweak anything, just waited for updates. If you were in a hurry, you had to tweak everything, yes.
    - stonogo 3y ago
      Glad you had a good experience. I didn't. I still don't consider either device a serious contender. "Just wait" is not what people want to hear when their phone doesn't work. I envy the people who can introduce such obstacles into their own lives; I, and many others, cannot.
      - fsflover 3y ago
        Fair enough. However, today you can already use Librem 5 as a daily driver for most tasks: https://forums.puri.sm/t/librem-5-daily-driven-in-professional-use-success/22303/40 https://forums.puri.sm/t/librem-5-daily-driven-in-profession...