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> "But, due to California law, Apple cannot prevent developers from informing consumers that lower prices are available outside of the app." Is this CA law enf

> "But, due to California law, Apple cannot prevent developers from informing consumers that lower prices are available outside of the app." Is this CA law enforceable because Apple is HQ in CA, or simply because they do business there? - if simply due to operating business there, couldn't Apple geofence the entire state and only allow developers the option to steer consumers who are using their app within CA state lines? - if it's simply because Apple is HQ in CA, couldn't Apple simply move it's HQ (on paper) to another US state (like Texas, where a lot of other tech companies have moved HQs)

lotsofpulp 3y ago
The location of a business’s structure labeled “HQ” has no relevance to applicability of laws. If the business is conducting business with people within a given geographic boundary, then the laws of that geographic boundary apply to the business. > if simply due to operating business there, couldn't Apple geofence the entire state and only allow developers the option to steer consumers who are using their app within CA state lines? Yes.
- otterley 3y ago
  Sorry, but that is not the law. There are lots of factors that go into choice of law, and you can't distill it to a few sentences like this. In any event, almost every business (and even B2C) contract and EULA these days includes a choice of law provision that parties agree to bind themselves to, and Apple's are no exception.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - lotsofpulp 3y ago
    If that was true, why would any business subject themselves to California’s usually more stringent regulations? > U.S. District Judge Yvonne Gonzalez Rogers in 2021 rejected Epic's antitrust claims against Apple. But the judge found that Apple violated California's unfair competition law by barring developers from "steering" users to make digital purchases that bypass Apple's in-app system, which Epic contends could save them money with lower commissions.
    - otterley 3y ago
      California law isn’t 100% disadvantageous for all businesses. There are benefits as well. The choices aren’t always easy to make as the picture is rarely black and white.
  - JumpCrisscross 3y ago
    > a choice of law provision that parties agree to bind themselves to, and Apple's are no exception Choice of law provisions are still subject to the prevailing law. And the first determinant of prevailing law is physical location. Sacramento exerts de facto jurisdiction over every Apple and related asset within California.
    - otterley 3y ago
      Are you familiar with any cases in which a court voided a choice of law provision in an otherwise valid contract? (Yes I’m aware of the requirement now imposed that the language needs to be carefully drafted.)
summerlight 3y ago
Not only Apple, but you also need to take account of those app developers and consumers in scope of the law. If you want to avoid this, you need to fully shut down your entire app store business in CA. This is why a big-tech regulation in a single prominent state sometime can become effectively an US-wide regulation.
WWLink 3y ago
> if it's simply because Apple is HQ in CA, couldn't Apple simply move it's HQ (on paper) to another US state (like Texas, where a lot of other tech companies have moved HQs) I was going to say there's no way they're registered in CA, most companies are registered in Delaware or whatever..... But nope! Apple Inc is registered in California. Go figure. For all the Irish tax shenanigans, they're still registered in California!
- asylteltine 3y ago
  But is Apple Inc “the company” that runs the App Store? Apple Inc doesn’t make profits that’s the Ireland Apple.
  - johnbatch 3y ago
    “DEFINITION OF APPLE Depending on your Home Country, “Apple” means: Apple Inc., located at One Apple Park Way, Cupertino, California, for users in the United States, including Puerto Rico; Apple Canada Inc., located at 120 Bremner Blvd., Suite 1600, Toronto ON M5J 0A8, Canada for users in Canada; Apple Services LATAM LLC, located at 1 Alhambra Plaza, Ste 700 Coral Gables, Florida, for users in Mexico, Central or South America, or any Caribbean country or territory (excluding Puerto Rico); iTunes K.K., located at Roppongi Hills, 6-10-1 Roppongi, Minato-ku, Tokyo 106-6140, Tokyo for users in Japan; Apple Pty Limited, located at Level 3, 20 Martin Place, Sydney NSW 2000, Australia, for users in Australia or New Zealand, including in any of their territories or affiliated jurisdictions; and Apple Distribution International Ltd., located at Hollyhill Industrial Estate, Hollyhill, Cork, Republic of Ireland, for all other users. “ [0] https://www.apple.com/legal/internet-services/itunes/us/terms.html https://www.apple.com/legal/internet-services/itunes/us/term...
johnbatch 3y ago
Terms of sale[0] in the app store says > Except to the extent expressly provided in the following paragraph, this Agreement and the relationship between you and Apple shall be governed by the laws of the State of California, excluding its conflicts of law provisions. You and Apple agree to submit to the personal and exclusive jurisdiction of the courts located within the county of Santa Clara, California, to resolve any dispute or claim arising from this Agreement. [0] https://www.apple.com/legal/internet-services/itunes/us/terms.html https://www.apple.com/legal/internet-services/itunes/us/term...
- alberth 3y ago
  Interesting. I wonder why Apple didn’t pick Delaware or another business friendly state.

lotsofpulp 3y ago

The location of a business’s structure labeled “HQ” has no relevance to applicability of laws. If the business is conducting business with people within a given geographic boundary, then the laws of that geographic boundary apply to the business. > if simply due to operating business there, couldn't Apple geofence the entire state and only allow developers the option to steer consumers who are using their app within CA state lines? Yes.

otterley 3y ago
Sorry, but that is not the law. There are lots of factors that go into choice of law, and you can't distill it to a few sentences like this. In any event, almost every business (and even B2C) contract and EULA these days includes a choice of law provision that parties agree to bind themselves to, and Apple's are no exception.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- lotsofpulp 3y ago
  If that was true, why would any business subject themselves to California’s usually more stringent regulations? > U.S. District Judge Yvonne Gonzalez Rogers in 2021 rejected Epic's antitrust claims against Apple. But the judge found that Apple violated California's unfair competition law by barring developers from "steering" users to make digital purchases that bypass Apple's in-app system, which Epic contends could save them money with lower commissions.
  - otterley 3y ago
    California law isn’t 100% disadvantageous for all businesses. There are benefits as well. The choices aren’t always easy to make as the picture is rarely black and white.
- JumpCrisscross 3y ago
  > a choice of law provision that parties agree to bind themselves to, and Apple's are no exception Choice of law provisions are still subject to the prevailing law. And the first determinant of prevailing law is physical location. Sacramento exerts de facto jurisdiction over every Apple and related asset within California.
  - otterley 3y ago
    Are you familiar with any cases in which a court voided a choice of law provision in an otherwise valid contract? (Yes I’m aware of the requirement now imposed that the language needs to be carefully drafted.)

summerlight 3y ago

Not only Apple, but you also need to take account of those app developers and consumers in scope of the law. If you want to avoid this, you need to fully shut down your entire app store business in CA. This is why a big-tech regulation in a single prominent state sometime can become effectively an US-wide regulation.

WWLink 3y ago

> if it's simply because Apple is HQ in CA, couldn't Apple simply move it's HQ (on paper) to another US state (like Texas, where a lot of other tech companies have moved HQs) I was going to say there's no way they're registered in CA, most companies are registered in Delaware or whatever..... But nope! Apple Inc is registered in California. Go figure. For all the Irish tax shenanigans, they're still registered in California!

asylteltine 3y ago
But is Apple Inc “the company” that runs the App Store? Apple Inc doesn’t make profits that’s the Ireland Apple.
- johnbatch 3y ago
  “DEFINITION OF APPLE Depending on your Home Country, “Apple” means: Apple Inc., located at One Apple Park Way, Cupertino, California, for users in the United States, including Puerto Rico; Apple Canada Inc., located at 120 Bremner Blvd., Suite 1600, Toronto ON M5J 0A8, Canada for users in Canada; Apple Services LATAM LLC, located at 1 Alhambra Plaza, Ste 700 Coral Gables, Florida, for users in Mexico, Central or South America, or any Caribbean country or territory (excluding Puerto Rico); iTunes K.K., located at Roppongi Hills, 6-10-1 Roppongi, Minato-ku, Tokyo 106-6140, Tokyo for users in Japan; Apple Pty Limited, located at Level 3, 20 Martin Place, Sydney NSW 2000, Australia, for users in Australia or New Zealand, including in any of their territories or affiliated jurisdictions; and Apple Distribution International Ltd., located at Hollyhill Industrial Estate, Hollyhill, Cork, Republic of Ireland, for all other users. “ [0] https://www.apple.com/legal/internet-services/itunes/us/terms.html https://www.apple.com/legal/internet-services/itunes/us/term...

johnbatch 3y ago

Terms of sale[0] in the app store says > Except to the extent expressly provided in the following paragraph, this Agreement and the relationship between you and Apple shall be governed by the laws of the State of California, excluding its conflicts of law provisions. You and Apple agree to submit to the personal and exclusive jurisdiction of the courts located within the county of Santa Clara, California, to resolve any dispute or claim arising from this Agreement. [0] https://www.apple.com/legal/internet-services/itunes/us/terms.html https://www.apple.com/legal/internet-services/itunes/us/term...

alberth 3y ago
Interesting. I wonder why Apple didn’t pick Delaware or another business friendly state.