4 ms·

No, it has little to no value at all until something really catastrophic happens to you. Paying thousands of dollars a year for a "free" annual checkup is NOT

by dublin 3y ago

No, it has little to no value at all until something really catastrophic happens to you. Paying thousands of dollars a year for a "free" annual checkup is NOT delivering "a lot of value". It's been much more of just a money pit. Over my career, I am upside-down on my healthcare costs to the tune of six figures - and that's after kidney stone surgery some years back...) I think I'll pass on succumbing to cancer to try to recover a bit more, though...

mikeyouse 3y ago
It's tax time now so I get a wonderful breakdown of how much my company paid for my and my family's insurance (over $25k) and I also get to put together how much we spent out of pocket on health services (over $5k for a bog-standard pregnancy). If this is supposed to be some sort of bargain or good deal, I'm missing it. In the decade prior to this, my total premiums must have been over $200k for literally no usage.
- LeafItAlone 3y ago
  > In the decade prior to this, my total premiums must have been over $200k for literally no usage. You’ve just described insurance. If everyone took more than they used, it wouldn’t work.
- Sohcahtoa82 3y ago
  I think you're fundamentally misunderstanding what insurance is, or just refusing to acknowledge it. It's not pre-paid care. It's not a discount plan. Really, it's a gamble. Health insurance is ridiculously expensive because health care can become ridiculously expensive. Sure, you're healthy and accident-free, but the costs of a traumatic accident or long-term illness could easily reach 6, possibly even 7 figures in the long term. That's what your insurance is paying for. For any type of insurance to work, you need people that aren't making claims to fund the people that are making claims. If you take the attitude of "Why should my premiums pay for someone else's care?", then really there's no reason to even get insurance. Your insurance is costing $25K/year, because statistically, the average family has at least $20K in healthcare costs per year (Assuming the insurance company is satisfying the ACA requirement of 80% of premiums must go to paying for care). Your $25K/year in premiums is a bet that you won't need some $Y to pay for healthcare, where $Y >>> $25K. Most of the time, you're losing that bet, and the insurer is making $25K off of you. But if you ever find yourself in a world of hurt (quite literally), you'll be glad you made the bet.
  - omeze 3y ago
    This is true but I think misses the spirit of the criticism Imagine an alternative world where health insurance acts more like a mortgage with an amortization schedule. when youre young (and have low savings) your premiums act like they do now - simple insurance. But as you age, your payments are split gradually between pure premium and an HSA. The amount you’re personally liable for increases as you age, but so does your ability to pay out of pocket. For high earners this scheme makes a lot more sense (because youll have a few hundred thousand in health savings by retirement). Most people actually do the above but clumsily and also in the opposite order - HDHP plans are more broadly useful when youre young and healthy because you probably wont have high medical costs so you just save on premiums.
    - Sohcahtoa82 3y ago
      > Imagine an alternative world [...] This world could be disastrous. Imagine your entire savings wiped out by a single incident. Though this already happens in the current world. Also, that world would simply not work for low earners.
  - genman 3y ago
    US health insurance is simply completely nuts for an European (EU) person. My health insurance is not free (it is taxed as a separate social tax) but it is way, way less than this. There is still one important disclaimer to add. Because very good niche doctors who can perform very specific rare procedures can charge a lot more in US then it can happen that these doctors will emigrate to US from EU and it is possible but not necessarily true that this kind of very expensive insurance could cover such procedures and make them more available for US insurers than for EU insurers (e.g. tax payers).
- jmye 3y ago
  Then get rid of it. In the US, you’re not obligated to have insurance and are free to gamble on your continued good health and save your premium money for a black swan health event. Or, alternately, look up the word “insurance” and realize what its purpose is.
  - mikeyouse 3y ago
    Maybe you missed the part where my employer pays the $25k/year on my behalf. Though your condescension is noted, everyone clearly knows what insurance is and it should be abundantly clear why it's so problematic. Maybe worth noting in that same time period, my insurance company reported nearly $150 billion in profits after paying their entire corps of middlemen and rent-seekers, who as far as I can tell soley exist to mididentify routine procedures and billing codes in the hopes that I won't have any more patience to sit on hold and get it corrected.

by dublin 3y ago

mikeyouse 3y ago

It's tax time now so I get a wonderful breakdown of how much my company paid for my and my family's insurance (over $25k) and I also get to put together how much we spent out of pocket on health services (over $5k for a bog-standard pregnancy). If this is supposed to be some sort of bargain or good deal, I'm missing it. In the decade prior to this, my total premiums must have been over $200k for literally no usage.

LeafItAlone 3y ago
> In the decade prior to this, my total premiums must have been over $200k for literally no usage. You’ve just described insurance. If everyone took more than they used, it wouldn’t work.
Sohcahtoa82 3y ago
I think you're fundamentally misunderstanding what insurance is, or just refusing to acknowledge it. It's not pre-paid care. It's not a discount plan. Really, it's a gamble. Health insurance is ridiculously expensive because health care can become ridiculously expensive. Sure, you're healthy and accident-free, but the costs of a traumatic accident or long-term illness could easily reach 6, possibly even 7 figures in the long term. That's what your insurance is paying for. For any type of insurance to work, you need people that aren't making claims to fund the people that are making claims. If you take the attitude of "Why should my premiums pay for someone else's care?", then really there's no reason to even get insurance. Your insurance is costing $25K/year, because statistically, the average family has at least $20K in healthcare costs per year (Assuming the insurance company is satisfying the ACA requirement of 80% of premiums must go to paying for care). Your $25K/year in premiums is a bet that you won't need some $Y to pay for healthcare, where $Y >>> $25K. Most of the time, you're losing that bet, and the insurer is making $25K off of you. But if you ever find yourself in a world of hurt (quite literally), you'll be glad you made the bet.
- omeze 3y ago
  This is true but I think misses the spirit of the criticism Imagine an alternative world where health insurance acts more like a mortgage with an amortization schedule. when youre young (and have low savings) your premiums act like they do now - simple insurance. But as you age, your payments are split gradually between pure premium and an HSA. The amount you’re personally liable for increases as you age, but so does your ability to pay out of pocket. For high earners this scheme makes a lot more sense (because youll have a few hundred thousand in health savings by retirement). Most people actually do the above but clumsily and also in the opposite order - HDHP plans are more broadly useful when youre young and healthy because you probably wont have high medical costs so you just save on premiums.
  - Sohcahtoa82 3y ago
    > Imagine an alternative world [...] This world could be disastrous. Imagine your entire savings wiped out by a single incident. Though this already happens in the current world. Also, that world would simply not work for low earners.
- genman 3y ago
  US health insurance is simply completely nuts for an European (EU) person. My health insurance is not free (it is taxed as a separate social tax) but it is way, way less than this. There is still one important disclaimer to add. Because very good niche doctors who can perform very specific rare procedures can charge a lot more in US then it can happen that these doctors will emigrate to US from EU and it is possible but not necessarily true that this kind of very expensive insurance could cover such procedures and make them more available for US insurers than for EU insurers (e.g. tax payers).
jmye 3y ago
Then get rid of it. In the US, you’re not obligated to have insurance and are free to gamble on your continued good health and save your premium money for a black swan health event. Or, alternately, look up the word “insurance” and realize what its purpose is.
- mikeyouse 3y ago
  Maybe you missed the part where my employer pays the $25k/year on my behalf. Though your condescension is noted, everyone clearly knows what insurance is and it should be abundantly clear why it's so problematic. Maybe worth noting in that same time period, my insurance company reported nearly $150 billion in profits after paying their entire corps of middlemen and rent-seekers, who as far as I can tell soley exist to mididentify routine procedures and billing codes in the hopes that I won't have any more patience to sit on hold and get it corrected.