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So basically natives don't reproduce, we import more immigrants who reproduce much faster, and those immigrants leaving their homeland allows more "growth space

So basically natives don't reproduce, we import more immigrants who reproduce much faster, and those immigrants leaving their homeland allows more "growth space" for the existing people there. That's essentially a population replacement on the planet-scale, isn't it?

xeornet 3y ago
It sure is! And we act as if talking about it is absolutely prohibited.
- randomopining 3y ago
  Yup it's a very straightforward concept (notice how my post contained nothing false, emotional, or bigoted), and yet it gets downvoted by a sect of people who simply cannot allow "this type" of free speech to exist.
  - standardUser 3y ago
    It would take a very simplistic understanding of human migration to think it is in any way "straightforward". I think the downvotes come form the extreme over-simplification present in comments like yours.
    - randomopining 3y ago
      What part of my proposition is unfleshed or unsupported by facts? It's not like some 100 page dissertation, it's a comment on HN. Of course you could spend weeks discussing anything in the detail it deserves.
    - xeornet 3y ago
      The causes may be complex, the outcome however is extremely simple. Worth noting that a few down votes have no reflection on the truth or accuracy of a particular comment, they are merely an expression of opinion and/or ignorance - in much the same way my comments are simply an opinion and/or ignorance.
stephaner 3y ago
All children born in France are counted in the stats. Please leave the "population replacement" bullshit theory to fascists.
- randomopining 3y ago
  1. France accepts large amounts of immigrants - Fact. 2. There is no separation in these stats by country of origin, race, etc - Fact. 3. It is proven in numerous stats around the world that immigrant reproductive rates are much higher than native peoples in the West - Fact. Given these facts as I've laid out, it is really quite inflammatory to call a proposition "BS" - especially without any contradictory evidence provided. Free speech is vital to a functional democratic society.
  - retinaros 3y ago
    you are right. but they will call you a racist. i am lucky i cant be called a racist by them as i am myself an immigrant but as I prefer programming rather than woke politics I am quite factual and this is indeed a blatant fact than can be proven by any kind of statistics
    - randomopining 3y ago
      Yup. And some will even try to discount your opinion by "assaulting the messenger", saying that you're economically privileged by being a programmer etc etc. It's very hard for people on both ends of the spectrum to take, analyze, and respond to a statement by itself and not to the person who is saying it.
- mytailorisrich 3y ago
  > All children born in France are counted in the stats That's completely irrelevant. Even leaving aside the "conspiracy" aspect there is a valid point in using the term "replacement" to describe the trend when you combine the effect of immigration and relative birth rates.
standardUser 3y ago
Immigration is not a static phenomenon. The birthrates of immigrant groups drop to more closely match the existing population, and the origin nations of immigrant groups change over time, sometimes eventually becoming nations with net positive immigration. Colombia for example was a nation with net negative migration due to the drug war and political violence, but is now about even due to a surge of immigrants from Venezuela and the US. Or just think about the patterns of Irish or Italian immigration to the US. There's also a huge historic and geographic factor, specifically colonialism, that creates connections for immigration that would otherwise be unlikely. It's not like this is some clockwork system where every citizen migrates to the richest country that can reach at any given time. It's people, by the tens of millions, making the best decisions they can for themselves and their family based on the political and economic realities.
- vidarh 3y ago
  Fertility rates in all of these countries he worries about are also rapidly dropping.
- randomopining 3y ago
  Everything you said is factual. Colombia - great it was a drop in the bucket, they speak the same language and integrate, and it still is a big albatross on society there. US - mass European immigration meant that people needed to learn english to integrate, same religion caused easier integration, etc. It's not nearly 1:1 with the current situations in the US and Europe, respectively. I'm just saying that mass immigration has effects on the country, the people, the economy/housing, the way of life, etc. People should fully understand this and then vote accordingly. It's something to openly discuss and digest, not something to be swept under the rug or "downvoted".
  - standardUser 3y ago
    You specifically speculated that it is "population replacement on the planet-scale" which is not only simplistic to the point of being untrue, but also references language widely used by people and organizations who oppose migration specifically due to racial concerns. If you ever want to have a reasonable, productive conversation about immigration, don't use words like 'replacement' that almost everyone knows are racially charged. And by the way I upvoted your original comment for visibility because I believe these issues should be discussed openly.

xeornet 3y ago

It sure is! And we act as if talking about it is absolutely prohibited.

randomopining 3y ago
Yup it's a very straightforward concept (notice how my post contained nothing false, emotional, or bigoted), and yet it gets downvoted by a sect of people who simply cannot allow "this type" of free speech to exist.
- standardUser 3y ago
  It would take a very simplistic understanding of human migration to think it is in any way "straightforward". I think the downvotes come form the extreme over-simplification present in comments like yours.
  - randomopining 3y ago
    What part of my proposition is unfleshed or unsupported by facts? It's not like some 100 page dissertation, it's a comment on HN. Of course you could spend weeks discussing anything in the detail it deserves.
  - xeornet 3y ago
    The causes may be complex, the outcome however is extremely simple. Worth noting that a few down votes have no reflection on the truth or accuracy of a particular comment, they are merely an expression of opinion and/or ignorance - in much the same way my comments are simply an opinion and/or ignorance.

stephaner 3y ago

All children born in France are counted in the stats. Please leave the "population replacement" bullshit theory to fascists.

randomopining 3y ago
1. France accepts large amounts of immigrants - Fact. 2. There is no separation in these stats by country of origin, race, etc - Fact. 3. It is proven in numerous stats around the world that immigrant reproductive rates are much higher than native peoples in the West - Fact. Given these facts as I've laid out, it is really quite inflammatory to call a proposition "BS" - especially without any contradictory evidence provided. Free speech is vital to a functional democratic society.
- retinaros 3y ago
  you are right. but they will call you a racist. i am lucky i cant be called a racist by them as i am myself an immigrant but as I prefer programming rather than woke politics I am quite factual and this is indeed a blatant fact than can be proven by any kind of statistics
  - randomopining 3y ago
    Yup. And some will even try to discount your opinion by "assaulting the messenger", saying that you're economically privileged by being a programmer etc etc. It's very hard for people on both ends of the spectrum to take, analyze, and respond to a statement by itself and not to the person who is saying it.
mytailorisrich 3y ago
> All children born in France are counted in the stats That's completely irrelevant. Even leaving aside the "conspiracy" aspect there is a valid point in using the term "replacement" to describe the trend when you combine the effect of immigration and relative birth rates.

standardUser 3y ago

Immigration is not a static phenomenon. The birthrates of immigrant groups drop to more closely match the existing population, and the origin nations of immigrant groups change over time, sometimes eventually becoming nations with net positive immigration. Colombia for example was a nation with net negative migration due to the drug war and political violence, but is now about even due to a surge of immigrants from Venezuela and the US. Or just think about the patterns of Irish or Italian immigration to the US. There's also a huge historic and geographic factor, specifically colonialism, that creates connections for immigration that would otherwise be unlikely. It's not like this is some clockwork system where every citizen migrates to the richest country that can reach at any given time. It's people, by the tens of millions, making the best decisions they can for themselves and their family based on the political and economic realities.

vidarh 3y ago
Fertility rates in all of these countries he worries about are also rapidly dropping.
randomopining 3y ago
Everything you said is factual. Colombia - great it was a drop in the bucket, they speak the same language and integrate, and it still is a big albatross on society there. US - mass European immigration meant that people needed to learn english to integrate, same religion caused easier integration, etc. It's not nearly 1:1 with the current situations in the US and Europe, respectively. I'm just saying that mass immigration has effects on the country, the people, the economy/housing, the way of life, etc. People should fully understand this and then vote accordingly. It's something to openly discuss and digest, not something to be swept under the rug or "downvoted".
- standardUser 3y ago
  You specifically speculated that it is "population replacement on the planet-scale" which is not only simplistic to the point of being untrue, but also references language widely used by people and organizations who oppose migration specifically due to racial concerns. If you ever want to have a reasonable, productive conversation about immigration, don't use words like 'replacement' that almost everyone knows are racially charged. And by the way I upvoted your original comment for visibility because I believe these issues should be discussed openly.