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It was deregulation in my mind that caused Grenfell. You used to have to get your design cleared by a Local Authority Buildings Inspector. Now you can opt out

It was deregulation in my mind that caused Grenfell. You used to have to get your design cleared by a Local Authority Buildings Inspector. Now you can opt out and get a private company to do it!

michaelt 3y ago
Grenfell revealed loads of failings. Some were deregulation, but some were outright deliberate fraud, like when Kingspan and Celotex scammed the test process and produced misleading safety documents to get their flammable insulation used where it wasn't legal. And local authorities don't come out of it well either - the building was owned and maintained by a local authority, they hired the architects, the design-and-build contractor, and the guy whose job it was to carry out fire risk assessments. And they chose a bidding process that drove the price so low the bidders who wanted to use non-flammable cladding all dropped out. Definitely need to stricter regulation though - the idea we could trust the construction industry to use flammable cladding safely has proven false. Flammable cladding should be banned on tall buildings all together.
- jimnotgym 3y ago
  I think we are in agreement. From what I remember, Kingspan changed their formulation and didn't repeat the fire testing. Again, how is it you are allowed to do your own testing, rather than submit samples regularly to a test house? Or perhaps products on higher risk buildings should be spot checked. A sample from the jobsite itself could be tested. Self- regulation is a joke.
  - michaelt 3y ago
    Well, they did submit samples to a test house - the Buildings Research Establishment - for fire safety testing. And they got safety certifications from independent bodies like LABC. Just you know, it turns out while the test rigs were being built, the BRE might have looked the other way while someone put fireproof magnesium oxide boards over the temperature sensors. And when the manufacturer sent 'all the test results' to LABC for the certification, they didn't include the tests that ended in "a raging inferno". You see, that test was terminated early, so it wasn't a completed test. And when the manufacturer got the certificate granted, which included a bunch of caveats about how the material specifically had to be used, they immediately quoted it in their marketing materials without any of those caveats. Of course all this fraud was done by some 18 year old junior employee, who was told it was 'industry standard behaviour' by a mid-level employee (who has conveniently since died) and the CEO had 'absolutely no idea' this was going on right under his nose.

It was deregulation in my mind that caused Grenfell. You used to have to get your design cleared by a Local Authority Buildings Inspector. Now you can opt out and get a private company to do it!

michaelt 3y ago

Grenfell revealed loads of failings. Some were deregulation, but some were outright deliberate fraud, like when Kingspan and Celotex scammed the test process and produced misleading safety documents to get their flammable insulation used where it wasn't legal. And local authorities don't come out of it well either - the building was owned and maintained by a local authority, they hired the architects, the design-and-build contractor, and the guy whose job it was to carry out fire risk assessments. And they chose a bidding process that drove the price so low the bidders who wanted to use non-flammable cladding all dropped out. Definitely need to stricter regulation though - the idea we could trust the construction industry to use flammable cladding safely has proven false. Flammable cladding should be banned on tall buildings all together.

jimnotgym 3y ago
I think we are in agreement. From what I remember, Kingspan changed their formulation and didn't repeat the fire testing. Again, how is it you are allowed to do your own testing, rather than submit samples regularly to a test house? Or perhaps products on higher risk buildings should be spot checked. A sample from the jobsite itself could be tested. Self- regulation is a joke.
- michaelt 3y ago
  Well, they did submit samples to a test house - the Buildings Research Establishment - for fire safety testing. And they got safety certifications from independent bodies like LABC. Just you know, it turns out while the test rigs were being built, the BRE might have looked the other way while someone put fireproof magnesium oxide boards over the temperature sensors. And when the manufacturer sent 'all the test results' to LABC for the certification, they didn't include the tests that ended in "a raging inferno". You see, that test was terminated early, so it wasn't a completed test. And when the manufacturer got the certificate granted, which included a bunch of caveats about how the material specifically had to be used, they immediately quoted it in their marketing materials without any of those caveats. Of course all this fraud was done by some 18 year old junior employee, who was told it was 'industry standard behaviour' by a mid-level employee (who has conveniently since died) and the CEO had 'absolutely no idea' this was going on right under his nose.