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I think there is one fundamental problem with those: duplication. Instead of one system, you need two. Hybrids by the way are not new at all. They have been us

I think there is one fundamental problem with those: duplication. Instead of one system, you need two. Hybrids by the way are not new at all. They have been used in shipping for ages in situations where the electric load was about the same or higher as the mechanical load, which happens in cruise ships for example. It worked in ships because of the high electric load and because weight doesn’t matter too much. This all doesn’t hold for cars. If it would have worked great, we would all be driving Priuses by now.

mrguyorama 3y ago
>we would all be driving Priuses by now. Good news, millions are! Millions more drive non-Prius hybrids, because people thought the shape of a car that cut through the air more efficiently than most was "unmanly"
- kube-system 3y ago
  Most Prii have decent drag coefficients, but others have accomplished similar or better numbers with more traditional sedan styling. The original Prius wasn't even really that amazing at 0.29. Many cars achieve .25-.3 today without looking like a Prius.
- metabagel 3y ago
  Poor visibility though.
hn_throwaway_99 3y ago
> Instead of one system, you need two. That's a common refrain, but in my personal experience I don't think it really holds water because of the additional savings you get: 1. The battery can be much, much smaller. This results in huge savings in cost, weight and environmental impact that offsets a lot of the cost of needing a gas engine. 2. You will end up utilizing much more of the battery. That is, the only reason you need a big battery in EVs in the first place is those thoughts of "what about longer trips", even if you only take longer trips 3% of the time. Plus, I would frequently drive my Volt's EV charge to near zero or zero (but still only use something like 0.1 gallons of gas), but with my current EV I never take it below ~30 miles of charge for fear of getting stranded. Your other examples don't really hold for plug-in hybrid vehicles. I think the big reason they were largely passed over in the marketplace is they were often "bolted on" to existing ICE models, so people saw them as just an additional expense with marginal benefit. Perhaps a good marketing guru will market them instead as "All the best parts of an EV, but with all the things that you hate/that scare you are fixed!"
- soco 3y ago
  I'm driving a plugin and yes, it runs over the week 100% on electric. Only on weekend trips - if any - the gas will kick in. Is it heavier? Yes it is, more tire and road wear (not that much though in terms of owner cost). Are the failures double because two systems? Yes - double zero so far. But also the wear on each system is less than with a single system, so that may compensate.
  - hn_throwaway_99 3y ago
    > Is it heavier? But, to be clear, a plugin hybrid is lighter than a comparable all-electric car because the battery is so much smaller. E.g. a Chevy Volt weighs about 3500 lbs vs. about 3800-4000 lbs for a Model 3.
- kkfx 3y ago
  1. means you fully cycle your battery FAR MORE than a bigger one, meaning the battery life will be far smaller as well, not a good thing. 2. so you have much more parts, more expensive to be produced and assembled just to wear out an expensive component quickly, UAU, that's a nice ideas... For the car OEMs...
  - Incipient 3y ago
    You cycle it more, but it's smaller. I'd rather replace a 25kwh battery every 5 years, than replace a 75kwh battery every 15.
    - sgerenser 3y ago
      Very unlikely you'd need to replace a plug-in's battery at 5 years anyway. The Volt (which I also own) only uses between about 15-85% of its battery capacity. Having to replace a battery on a Volt is very uncommon, even for ones going on 10+ years old.

mrguyorama 3y ago

>we would all be driving Priuses by now. Good news, millions are! Millions more drive non-Prius hybrids, because people thought the shape of a car that cut through the air more efficiently than most was "unmanly"

kube-system 3y ago
Most Prii have decent drag coefficients, but others have accomplished similar or better numbers with more traditional sedan styling. The original Prius wasn't even really that amazing at 0.29. Many cars achieve .25-.3 today without looking like a Prius.
metabagel 3y ago
Poor visibility though.

hn_throwaway_99 3y ago

> Instead of one system, you need two. That's a common refrain, but in my personal experience I don't think it really holds water because of the additional savings you get: 1. The battery can be much, much smaller. This results in huge savings in cost, weight and environmental impact that offsets a lot of the cost of needing a gas engine. 2. You will end up utilizing much more of the battery. That is, the only reason you need a big battery in EVs in the first place is those thoughts of "what about longer trips", even if you only take longer trips 3% of the time. Plus, I would frequently drive my Volt's EV charge to near zero or zero (but still only use something like 0.1 gallons of gas), but with my current EV I never take it below ~30 miles of charge for fear of getting stranded. Your other examples don't really hold for plug-in hybrid vehicles. I think the big reason they were largely passed over in the marketplace is they were often "bolted on" to existing ICE models, so people saw them as just an additional expense with marginal benefit. Perhaps a good marketing guru will market them instead as "All the best parts of an EV, but with all the things that you hate/that scare you are fixed!"

soco 3y ago
I'm driving a plugin and yes, it runs over the week 100% on electric. Only on weekend trips - if any - the gas will kick in. Is it heavier? Yes it is, more tire and road wear (not that much though in terms of owner cost). Are the failures double because two systems? Yes - double zero so far. But also the wear on each system is less than with a single system, so that may compensate.
- hn_throwaway_99 3y ago
  > Is it heavier? But, to be clear, a plugin hybrid is lighter than a comparable all-electric car because the battery is so much smaller. E.g. a Chevy Volt weighs about 3500 lbs vs. about 3800-4000 lbs for a Model 3.
kkfx 3y ago
1. means you fully cycle your battery FAR MORE than a bigger one, meaning the battery life will be far smaller as well, not a good thing. 2. so you have much more parts, more expensive to be produced and assembled just to wear out an expensive component quickly, UAU, that's a nice ideas... For the car OEMs...
- Incipient 3y ago
  You cycle it more, but it's smaller. I'd rather replace a 25kwh battery every 5 years, than replace a 75kwh battery every 15.
  - sgerenser 3y ago
    Very unlikely you'd need to replace a plug-in's battery at 5 years anyway. The Volt (which I also own) only uses between about 15-85% of its battery capacity. Having to replace a battery on a Volt is very uncommon, even for ones going on 10+ years old.