7 ms·

YouTube did not slow down adblock users. Adblock devs admit to problem

72 points by TechSquidTV 3y ago

noir_lord 3y ago
> Never ascribe to malice what can be adequately explained by stupidity{1} > {1} with the corollary "don't rule out malice" (Note: not saying adblock devs are stupid, bugs happen). An interesting example of how little faith people have in Google as an organisation is that so many people jumped to the worst interpretation of what was happening. Apparently a lot of people now give zero benefit of the doubt when it comes to Google and that's a long term problem for them.
- justapassenger 3y ago
  I don’t think that people being sceptic about $1.8T corporation that controls large part of internet and will fire large part of its workforce to make numbers look better is necessarily a problem.
  - redserk 3y ago
    Being skeptical is good. Jumping to conclusions because it validates feelings without any care to validate the facts is not.
    - justapassenger 3y ago
      [dead]
- zamadatix 3y ago
  1% of 1% of their monthly users taking the worst interpretation and running with it is hundreds of thousands of people. I think it just particularly happens to be the doubters are comprised primarily of us tech focused population so we see it strongly. How much of a problem it is I'm not as sure. Does the average consumer (not the people on HN or the ones we hang out with) actually have a particularly weaker view of Google than they did e.g. 10-15 years ago or is it just us techies who used to consider them the greatest thing since sliced bread and now often see them as an enemy? One is disappointing for us, the other is a long term problem for Google.
  - noir_lord 3y ago
    I'd argue that widespread distrust amongst "techies" is a bigger problem than it might otherwise appear because of how disproportionate an influence we have both at work and with people who know and trust our opinion. It's not one big cut but it's a death by a thousand cuts situation, I've never owned an iphone (beyond test devices issued by work) but it's likely my next device will be an iphone and I've been Android all the way back to the HTC Droid, when people ask me for a recommendation these days for their next phone I say iphone, that's three direct sales for Apple I can account for (parents and family) and 3 lost sales for Android/Google.
    - ipaddr 3y ago
      Why such a rosey view of Apple compared to Google? If you have been an Android user you might be surprised by what restrictions exist in the Apple world. It's annoying to have to side load app in Android but impossible with Apple unless running in debug mode with a cord attached to a real computer.
      - snapcaster 3y ago
        I will never use a phone operating system made by an advertising company. I don't know how much longer Apple can resist becoming one and then I don't know what i'll do
        ipaddr 3y ago
        Apple is an advertising company where every decision is trying to get you to buy more apple products
        snapcaster 3y ago
        Yes, we can always expand definitions to where everything means everything but why?
    - ephemeral-life 3y ago
- TechSquidTV 3y ago
  The absolute distain for YouTube has bothered me for a long time as a YouTube creator of many years myself. The platform is the most fair by far to creators and viewers. Amazing how little hate TikTok gets.
  - Workaccount2 3y ago
    Youtube gets hate literally because they have tolerated ad-block for so many years. People are pissed that YouTube is getting sick of serving them free content.
    - TechSquidTV 3y ago
      Agreed
    - avgDev 3y ago
      I would be more than happy to pay YouTube or watch ads, but they need to ban sponsored ads in their videos. If I don't use adblock, I get served an ad by google, then a 1-3 minute sponsored segment by the creator. I'm not paying for this.
      - Finn_ 3y ago
        While this doesn't completely solve the problem, SponsorBlock [0] makes it much more tolerable when watching videos in your browser. [0]: https://sponsor.ajay.app https://sponsor.ajay.app
      - CamperBob2 3y ago
        Isn't that what SponsorBlock is for? I don't think you want YouTube censoring videos on this basis.
      - Sohcahtoa82 3y ago
        You know you can just fast-forward through those, right? I mean, sure, that's still a minor annoyance, but not every channel has them, and many of them put them at the end anyways.
- voiceblue 3y ago
  I would argue the more appropriate quote here is “a lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is still putting on its shoes.”
- tekla 3y ago
  It's good old hysteria.
- mathgradthrow 3y ago
  If someone is your opponent, assuming stupidity is the same as letting your guard down.
- wvh 3y ago
  I think those companies and people generally underestimate the bad blood that lives with users of those ad-supported websites that don't respect users' privacy. The majority of people will keep on using Youtube even if you show them the same dumb mentally degrading commercial every few minutes hundreds of times, but any goodwill or sympathy for your brand is pretty much non-existing. People are held hostage by these platforms because they have the content or people users care about, but I don't think anybody really thinks Google or Facebook are their friend. Having the same ads following you around the web ad infinitum et ad nauseam without recourse almost constitutes a form of bullying or stalking.
  - ipaddr 3y ago
    Ads based on your interests are a form of bullying and must be stopped? People are held hostage by these platforms because they have free content you want to watch? You have control over your choices. No one is bullying you or holding you hostage. Control your desire for free content if you feel the trade off of a 30 second ad once in while is mentally degrading.
    - lp0_on_fire 3y ago
      > Ads based on your interests are a form of bullying and must be stopped? These aren't your granddaddy's ads that were printed on the back of a newspaper or on the place mat in the diner. They are the product of invasive surveillance foisted upon the user through dark patters and deception, so I would argue the answer is a definitive "yes".
      - ipaddr 3y ago
        But those ads kept following me around and bullying whenever I got a paper. Dark patterns existed before like having a doctor recommend cigarettes for weight loss. That's more bullying and pressure compared to an ad beside an article you are reading.
        lp0_on_fire 3y ago
- soulofmischief 3y ago
  soulofmischief's rule: Never take arbitrary heuristics or razors as fact. It's easy in hindsight to validate when the heuristic was correct, but Hanlan's razor specifically was meant to be tongue in cheek. Understand the context behind something before you apply it to your daily life. > An interesting example of how little faith people have in Google as an organisation Well deserved. Google traded credibility and trust for ad money for too many years, and have left a graveyard behind them. Everything they do should be suspect.
- mock-possum 3y ago
  Wizard’s first rule: people are stupid. They will believe a lie because they are afraid it might be true, or because they wish it was true.
sccxy 3y ago
Just use uBlock Origin and keep blocklists as small as possible. False positives break so many websites.
- TechSquidTV 3y ago
  A friend of mine can't access anything, period, without ten minutes of debugging to find what he's blocking
  - Sohcahtoa82 3y ago
    Sounds like he's using one of those extensions that blocks all JavaScript. I tried once, and gave up after 2 days. I hated having to whitelist everything. I use uBlock Origin on my desktop, and uBlock Origin + PiHole on my phone, and there are only a couple websites that refuse to work, and so I just don't use those sites.
ChrisArchitect 3y ago
[dupe] More discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38987489 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38987489
- tredre3 3y ago
  Not a dupe. Your link is people claiming that Youtube was deliberately slowing down the site for people using adblockers. The current article claims that was not the case, and was just a poor adblock implementation.
  - ChrisArchitect 3y ago
    Point is, discussion over there. Don't need ten threads. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38999987 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38999987 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39001686 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39001686
    - fragmede 3y ago
      the discussion over there isn't necessarily aware of this new information

72 points by TechSquidTV 3y ago

> Never ascribe to malice what can be adequately explained by stupidity{1} > {1} with the corollary "don't rule out malice" (Note: not saying adblock devs are stupid, bugs happen). An interesting example of how little faith people have in Google as an organisation is that so many people jumped to the worst interpretation of what was happening. Apparently a lot of people now give zero benefit of the doubt when it comes to Google and that's a long term problem for them.

justapassenger 3y ago
I don’t think that people being sceptic about $1.8T corporation that controls large part of internet and will fire large part of its workforce to make numbers look better is necessarily a problem.
- redserk 3y ago
  Being skeptical is good. Jumping to conclusions because it validates feelings without any care to validate the facts is not.
  - justapassenger 3y ago
    [dead]
zamadatix 3y ago
1% of 1% of their monthly users taking the worst interpretation and running with it is hundreds of thousands of people. I think it just particularly happens to be the doubters are comprised primarily of us tech focused population so we see it strongly. How much of a problem it is I'm not as sure. Does the average consumer (not the people on HN or the ones we hang out with) actually have a particularly weaker view of Google than they did e.g. 10-15 years ago or is it just us techies who used to consider them the greatest thing since sliced bread and now often see them as an enemy? One is disappointing for us, the other is a long term problem for Google.
- noir_lord 3y ago
  I'd argue that widespread distrust amongst "techies" is a bigger problem than it might otherwise appear because of how disproportionate an influence we have both at work and with people who know and trust our opinion. It's not one big cut but it's a death by a thousand cuts situation, I've never owned an iphone (beyond test devices issued by work) but it's likely my next device will be an iphone and I've been Android all the way back to the HTC Droid, when people ask me for a recommendation these days for their next phone I say iphone, that's three direct sales for Apple I can account for (parents and family) and 3 lost sales for Android/Google.
  - ipaddr 3y ago
    Why such a rosey view of Apple compared to Google? If you have been an Android user you might be surprised by what restrictions exist in the Apple world. It's annoying to have to side load app in Android but impossible with Apple unless running in debug mode with a cord attached to a real computer.
    - snapcaster 3y ago
      I will never use a phone operating system made by an advertising company. I don't know how much longer Apple can resist becoming one and then I don't know what i'll do
      - ipaddr 3y ago
        Apple is an advertising company where every decision is trying to get you to buy more apple products
        snapcaster 3y ago
        Yes, we can always expand definitions to where everything means everything but why?
  - ephemeral-life 3y ago
TechSquidTV 3y ago
The absolute distain for YouTube has bothered me for a long time as a YouTube creator of many years myself. The platform is the most fair by far to creators and viewers. Amazing how little hate TikTok gets.
- Workaccount2 3y ago
  Youtube gets hate literally because they have tolerated ad-block for so many years. People are pissed that YouTube is getting sick of serving them free content.
  - TechSquidTV 3y ago
    Agreed
  - avgDev 3y ago
    I would be more than happy to pay YouTube or watch ads, but they need to ban sponsored ads in their videos. If I don't use adblock, I get served an ad by google, then a 1-3 minute sponsored segment by the creator. I'm not paying for this.
    - Finn_ 3y ago
      While this doesn't completely solve the problem, SponsorBlock [0] makes it much more tolerable when watching videos in your browser. [0]: https://sponsor.ajay.app https://sponsor.ajay.app
    - CamperBob2 3y ago
      Isn't that what SponsorBlock is for? I don't think you want YouTube censoring videos on this basis.
    - Sohcahtoa82 3y ago
      You know you can just fast-forward through those, right? I mean, sure, that's still a minor annoyance, but not every channel has them, and many of them put them at the end anyways.
voiceblue 3y ago
I would argue the more appropriate quote here is “a lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is still putting on its shoes.”
tekla 3y ago
It's good old hysteria.
mathgradthrow 3y ago
If someone is your opponent, assuming stupidity is the same as letting your guard down.
wvh 3y ago
I think those companies and people generally underestimate the bad blood that lives with users of those ad-supported websites that don't respect users' privacy. The majority of people will keep on using Youtube even if you show them the same dumb mentally degrading commercial every few minutes hundreds of times, but any goodwill or sympathy for your brand is pretty much non-existing. People are held hostage by these platforms because they have the content or people users care about, but I don't think anybody really thinks Google or Facebook are their friend. Having the same ads following you around the web ad infinitum et ad nauseam without recourse almost constitutes a form of bullying or stalking.
- ipaddr 3y ago
  Ads based on your interests are a form of bullying and must be stopped? People are held hostage by these platforms because they have free content you want to watch? You have control over your choices. No one is bullying you or holding you hostage. Control your desire for free content if you feel the trade off of a 30 second ad once in while is mentally degrading.
  - lp0_on_fire 3y ago
    > Ads based on your interests are a form of bullying and must be stopped? These aren't your granddaddy's ads that were printed on the back of a newspaper or on the place mat in the diner. They are the product of invasive surveillance foisted upon the user through dark patters and deception, so I would argue the answer is a definitive "yes".
    - ipaddr 3y ago
      But those ads kept following me around and bullying whenever I got a paper. Dark patterns existed before like having a doctor recommend cigarettes for weight loss. That's more bullying and pressure compared to an ad beside an article you are reading.
      - lp0_on_fire 3y ago
soulofmischief 3y ago
soulofmischief's rule: Never take arbitrary heuristics or razors as fact. It's easy in hindsight to validate when the heuristic was correct, but Hanlan's razor specifically was meant to be tongue in cheek. Understand the context behind something before you apply it to your daily life. > An interesting example of how little faith people have in Google as an organisation Well deserved. Google traded credibility and trust for ad money for too many years, and have left a graveyard behind them. Everything they do should be suspect.
mock-possum 3y ago
Wizard’s first rule: people are stupid. They will believe a lie because they are afraid it might be true, or because they wish it was true.

sccxy 3y ago

Just use uBlock Origin and keep blocklists as small as possible. False positives break so many websites.

TechSquidTV 3y ago
A friend of mine can't access anything, period, without ten minutes of debugging to find what he's blocking
- Sohcahtoa82 3y ago
  Sounds like he's using one of those extensions that blocks all JavaScript. I tried once, and gave up after 2 days. I hated having to whitelist everything. I use uBlock Origin on my desktop, and uBlock Origin + PiHole on my phone, and there are only a couple websites that refuse to work, and so I just don't use those sites.

ChrisArchitect 3y ago

[dupe] More discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38987489 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38987489

tredre3 3y ago
Not a dupe. Your link is people claiming that Youtube was deliberately slowing down the site for people using adblockers. The current article claims that was not the case, and was just a poor adblock implementation.
- ChrisArchitect 3y ago
  Point is, discussion over there. Don't need ten threads. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38999987 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38999987 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39001686 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39001686
  - fragmede 3y ago
    the discussion over there isn't necessarily aware of this new information