3 ms·

I think you need to aim for a luxury-ish niche, or at least a occupy a space where people feel like they're buying a piece of luxury, that's aspirational, where

by vidarh 3y ago

I think you need to aim for a luxury-ish niche, or at least a occupy a space where people feel like they're buying a piece of luxury, that's aspirational, where people know they're paying over the odds and that's part of the feel good factor of buying it. A toaster might well be a good space for that - cheap enough that it can be expensive in relative terms without being out of reach. But figuring out the marketing of that feels almost as hard as the product. I suspect a lot of exaggerated appeal to "why aren't things as good/simple/reliable as they used to be?" that might not be all about toasters, but where even an expensive toaster can be cheap enough to become a symbolic buy for people.

wnc3141 3y ago
I have a theory that anything that takes permanent, visible-realestate in the household has someone of a niche for people wanting tastefully designed things. In essence, things that do not appear "disposable" as so many kitchen appliances do. People pay extra for designer hot water pots. However purely aesthetic upgrade products will need serious work to maintain differentiation. Dyson is a more glaring example (fans, vacuums, hair dryers), albeit with expensively achieved differentiation on engineering and manufacturing quality.
- 43920 3y ago
  There are already companies that make nice-looking, higher-end kitchen appliances though - Breville comes to mind, there are probably others. Speaking from personal experience, I have a toaster oven from them that’s lasted close to ten years with zero problems; I’d have a hard time being convinced to pay more for a “made in USA” one unless there was something truly exceptional about it.
  - xwolfi 3y ago
    Especially when you can sell for more something made in France, Italy, Japan or Germany. I think the "made in" chauvinism is a hard sell if it's the USA, especially to US customer: doesn't feel exotic and isn't cheap, so what's it there for except some cheap cash grab ? Plus, you know, there are some nice Chinese stuff now and they have an economy of scale that the US simply can't match.
  - vidarh 3y ago
    That's why I think you need a compelling story about it. How the poor inventor struggled against the odds to fix the scourge of bad toast, to bring you an exquisite product that makes you feel good to own for the story more than any tangible reason. It needs to be a personal story to set him apart from the other brands.
    - Auracle 3y ago
      You could go that one gun coffee brand and make it a camo pattern. Or go the other way and give it a rainbow pattern? Hell, put one on each side so you can flip it depending on which relatives are coming over.
      - vidarh 3y ago
        I think that kind of messaging is largely inherently incompatible with aiming for the high-margin/high-end market whether or not your buyers agree with you. E.g. I'm perfectly fine with a variety of political symbols, but I'd think a toaster emblazoned with them looked like a cheap gimmick, and would expect it to be priced as one.
    - tomjakubowski 3y ago
      throw in some tenuous connection to reviving the industrious spirit of Old Detroit ("It Never Died") and you have yourself a brand!
  - CPLX 3y ago
    I bought a Breville toaster and microwave when I was moving into and furnishing a new NYC apartment from scratch, and I decided to get something a little nicer, more aesthetic, etc. They were on a major after-Xmas sale so I figured why not. What I was not prepared for was how much better quality they were by a mile. It's not even close, they're so much more sturdy and well made and they work so much better than the ones I'd had before. Like the microwave is incredibly consistent in heating, it has a rotary knob for power level so you basically never get the on fire on one side and freezing on the other side thing if you don't want to, stuff like that. The toaster is a joy, it has an elegant little display, the toast is always flawless. So there's definitely a market for better stuff too. Unfortunately the OP without any prior experience might not be able to hit that bar either.
    - devilbunny 3y ago
      Note for other readers: due to old licensing deals for names, the brand sold as Breville in Europe is not the same as the one in US, CA, and AU. The one being talked about here is known as Sage in Europe. And they really are superior-quality devices.
      - ornornor 3y ago
        I have trouble understanding your last sentence. Is Breville EU/Sage appliances the high quality one, or is Breville US/AU/CA the high quality one?
        devilbunny 3y ago
        Australian company, so non-Europe Breville is the one I know. I don't believe that the European Breville sells over here.
        devilbunny 3y ago
        I m making a separate reply because I understand my answer was unclear. Sage EU is Breville US/CA/AU/NZ. Those are high quality. It’s an Aussie company. Breville EU and possibly UK (old agreements that may well predate the EEC, so don’t know any details) not the same; have never used and cannot comment.
- closeparen 3y ago
  People will do Bosch or Miele appliances because it sounds good in a real estate listing, but that’s relying on the cachet of a known brand. I looked at a condo once with an interesting sort of art deco kitchen on and a custom refrigerator that fit the theme. My first thought was, it’s got to be hell to get parts for that or find someone who knows how to work on it.
  - throwaway2037 3y ago
    I have read numerous posts on HN where Miele appliance owners swear by their reliability and repairability. I see Bosch mentioned less often.
    - hutzlibu 3y ago
      "I have read numerous posts on HN where Miele appliance owners swear by their reliability and repairability." Used to be. We had the same Miele devices for years, but I think their modern versions got downhill as well.
  - nixgeek 3y ago
    Sub Zero and Wolf is also the US “sounds good in a real estate listing” and with prices to match. You can easily be over $10k for a fridge or freezer! Worse is the warranty: we had an LED strip behind the crisper drawer fail after about 3 years and it was “Sorry; you’re out of warranty, that will be $220 in parts and $260 in labor”.
pbronez 3y ago
I recently discovered someone doing this. Revolution Cooking sells $280 and $350 toasters. They have touch screens, dozens of modes optimized for different kinds of bread, gluten-free mode and 7 toastiness levels. One of my colleagues has one and loves it dearly. It appears to be a US design firm that uses contract manufacturing: “we developed a proprietary alloy, a new, more efficient component design system, and intelligent heating algorithms that adjust in real-time.” “Tom assembled a team of world class engineers, designers and product marketers in Boston, MA, where Revolution Cooking is headquartered today.” https://revcook.com/pages/compare https://revcook.com/pages/compare

by vidarh 3y ago

wnc3141 3y ago

I have a theory that anything that takes permanent, visible-realestate in the household has someone of a niche for people wanting tastefully designed things. In essence, things that do not appear "disposable" as so many kitchen appliances do. People pay extra for designer hot water pots. However purely aesthetic upgrade products will need serious work to maintain differentiation. Dyson is a more glaring example (fans, vacuums, hair dryers), albeit with expensively achieved differentiation on engineering and manufacturing quality.

43920 3y ago
There are already companies that make nice-looking, higher-end kitchen appliances though - Breville comes to mind, there are probably others. Speaking from personal experience, I have a toaster oven from them that’s lasted close to ten years with zero problems; I’d have a hard time being convinced to pay more for a “made in USA” one unless there was something truly exceptional about it.
- xwolfi 3y ago
  Especially when you can sell for more something made in France, Italy, Japan or Germany. I think the "made in" chauvinism is a hard sell if it's the USA, especially to US customer: doesn't feel exotic and isn't cheap, so what's it there for except some cheap cash grab ? Plus, you know, there are some nice Chinese stuff now and they have an economy of scale that the US simply can't match.
- vidarh 3y ago
  That's why I think you need a compelling story about it. How the poor inventor struggled against the odds to fix the scourge of bad toast, to bring you an exquisite product that makes you feel good to own for the story more than any tangible reason. It needs to be a personal story to set him apart from the other brands.
  - Auracle 3y ago
    You could go that one gun coffee brand and make it a camo pattern. Or go the other way and give it a rainbow pattern? Hell, put one on each side so you can flip it depending on which relatives are coming over.
    - vidarh 3y ago
      I think that kind of messaging is largely inherently incompatible with aiming for the high-margin/high-end market whether or not your buyers agree with you. E.g. I'm perfectly fine with a variety of political symbols, but I'd think a toaster emblazoned with them looked like a cheap gimmick, and would expect it to be priced as one.
  - tomjakubowski 3y ago
    throw in some tenuous connection to reviving the industrious spirit of Old Detroit ("It Never Died") and you have yourself a brand!
- CPLX 3y ago
  I bought a Breville toaster and microwave when I was moving into and furnishing a new NYC apartment from scratch, and I decided to get something a little nicer, more aesthetic, etc. They were on a major after-Xmas sale so I figured why not. What I was not prepared for was how much better quality they were by a mile. It's not even close, they're so much more sturdy and well made and they work so much better than the ones I'd had before. Like the microwave is incredibly consistent in heating, it has a rotary knob for power level so you basically never get the on fire on one side and freezing on the other side thing if you don't want to, stuff like that. The toaster is a joy, it has an elegant little display, the toast is always flawless. So there's definitely a market for better stuff too. Unfortunately the OP without any prior experience might not be able to hit that bar either.
  - devilbunny 3y ago
    Note for other readers: due to old licensing deals for names, the brand sold as Breville in Europe is not the same as the one in US, CA, and AU. The one being talked about here is known as Sage in Europe. And they really are superior-quality devices.
    - ornornor 3y ago
      I have trouble understanding your last sentence. Is Breville EU/Sage appliances the high quality one, or is Breville US/AU/CA the high quality one?
      - devilbunny 3y ago
        Australian company, so non-Europe Breville is the one I know. I don't believe that the European Breville sells over here.
      - devilbunny 3y ago
        I m making a separate reply because I understand my answer was unclear. Sage EU is Breville US/CA/AU/NZ. Those are high quality. It’s an Aussie company. Breville EU and possibly UK (old agreements that may well predate the EEC, so don’t know any details) not the same; have never used and cannot comment.
closeparen 3y ago
People will do Bosch or Miele appliances because it sounds good in a real estate listing, but that’s relying on the cachet of a known brand. I looked at a condo once with an interesting sort of art deco kitchen on and a custom refrigerator that fit the theme. My first thought was, it’s got to be hell to get parts for that or find someone who knows how to work on it.
- throwaway2037 3y ago
  I have read numerous posts on HN where Miele appliance owners swear by their reliability and repairability. I see Bosch mentioned less often.
  - hutzlibu 3y ago
    "I have read numerous posts on HN where Miele appliance owners swear by their reliability and repairability." Used to be. We had the same Miele devices for years, but I think their modern versions got downhill as well.
- nixgeek 3y ago
  Sub Zero and Wolf is also the US “sounds good in a real estate listing” and with prices to match. You can easily be over $10k for a fridge or freezer! Worse is the warranty: we had an LED strip behind the crisper drawer fail after about 3 years and it was “Sorry; you’re out of warranty, that will be $220 in parts and $260 in labor”.

pbronez 3y ago

I recently discovered someone doing this. Revolution Cooking sells $280 and $350 toasters. They have touch screens, dozens of modes optimized for different kinds of bread, gluten-free mode and 7 toastiness levels. One of my colleagues has one and loves it dearly. It appears to be a US design firm that uses contract manufacturing: “we developed a proprietary alloy, a new, more efficient component design system, and intelligent heating algorithms that adjust in real-time.” “Tom assembled a team of world class engineers, designers and product marketers in Boston, MA, where Revolution Cooking is headquartered today.” https://revcook.com/pages/compare https://revcook.com/pages/compare