3 ms·

My main issue is usually that it’s so hard to tell if something is cheap but costs a lot, or if it costs a lot because it’s not cheap. Probably also partially b

My main issue is usually that it’s so hard to tell if something is cheap but costs a lot, or if it costs a lot because it’s not cheap. Probably also partially because of price anchoring, where products seem expensive, because many very cheap ones cost even less.

psc 3y ago
Very true, unfortunately this means that for many modern products it only makes sense to buy the cheapest because then at least you know exactly what you're getting (low quality), even though it's not really what you want. Yet again an instance of Market for Lemons (or maybe Gresham's law). [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Market_for_Lemons https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Market_for_Lemons [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gresham%27s_law https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gresham%27s_law
- Semaphor 3y ago
  It depends. For example for Kitchenware (not electronics), I’m very happy with German company Rösle. Usually the most expensive, but always high quality.
- eru 3y ago
  Reputation is a mechanism to escape the 'market for lemons'. Eg I know that Miele sells good stuff, and they are defending that reputation by continuing to produce good stuff, because it allows them to charge more. Gresham's law only applies when someone forces you to accept both moneys at par. Historically, people would require discounts for the bad coins, when they could. That's also why coins meant for an international audience where consistently of high quality, even when the domestic coins of the same issuer where being debased. (The Spanish dollar was a very good example of this. That's what the Americans used to use.) And that's exactly because while you can force your own subjects to accept your coins, you have to convince the foreigners. Reputation is key. No 'bad money drives out good money' here. Just the opposite.
drewzero1 3y ago
When our first cheap toaster broke, I tried to find a replacement part and then started really looking into a 'good' toaster. What I found is that there's pretty much the same metal box inside all toasters under about $200-- and even some of those seemed like they might use the same mechanism. (Cheap but costs a lot!) A few seemed like they might have slightly different control circuitry but not much else aside from the body shell. I even looked into making my own toaster (though not quite from scratch[0]) but eventually decided I wasn't willing to take on the risk of an untested electrical heating device, in the same way I would be wary of the cheapest toaster from ABCDEFG etc. on Amazon. Not long after, a customer brought a British-made toaster[1] into my repair shop. I had warned her about the impossibility of getting parts for toasters, but she'd actually already written in to the company and ordered a replacement heating element! It was surprisingly easy to work on, as the timer only controlled the heating element and the pop-up was a manual lever. At first glance that looked like a cheap solution, but on closer inspection it was built well and meant to last. (Costs a lot because it's not cheap.) I hear they still make some like that but the company's cheaper products aren't built the same. 0: https://www.dezeen.com/2009/06/27/the-toaster-project-by-thomas-thwaites/ https://www.dezeen.com/2009/06/27/the-toaster-project-by-tho... 1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dualit https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dualit
AtlasBarfed 3y ago
Consumer Reports is really the only objective measurement out there. Considering the various federal agencies do this for many many other things for certification/regs ... why not have them also do ratings? You need objective tests and experienced testers. We know from restaurant recommendations online (4 stars +/_ .2 stars for EVERYTHING) that in the general public there is far too much variance in "good". Of course the "experts" often fall into the "audiophile" trap in stereos, where a perfectly functional cheap alternative is downplayed for a laundry list of features or a pretty packaging. I mean, we are talking about toasters here. I wonder how much easier it is for OP to simply walk into China and get a factory setup to do this. Probably some bribes involved but the net cost might be less than regulatory approval here. Then get Chinese manufacturing work and the reverse-migrate a factory here. If I was overlord of the US, I would be actively pushing US companies to start doing this with heavy US government coopoeration. You know, like China did to us.
- eru 3y ago
  > [...] why not have them also do ratings? So the government is supposed to codify what makes pasta is tasty? Or whether pineapple on pizza is good or bad? > If I was overlord of the US, I would be actively pushing US companies to start doing this with heavy US government coopoeration. You know, like China did to us. Huh?

psc 3y ago

Very true, unfortunately this means that for many modern products it only makes sense to buy the cheapest because then at least you know exactly what you're getting (low quality), even though it's not really what you want. Yet again an instance of Market for Lemons (or maybe Gresham's law). [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Market_for_Lemons https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Market_for_Lemons [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gresham%27s_law https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gresham%27s_law

Semaphor 3y ago
It depends. For example for Kitchenware (not electronics), I’m very happy with German company Rösle. Usually the most expensive, but always high quality.
eru 3y ago
Reputation is a mechanism to escape the 'market for lemons'. Eg I know that Miele sells good stuff, and they are defending that reputation by continuing to produce good stuff, because it allows them to charge more. Gresham's law only applies when someone forces you to accept both moneys at par. Historically, people would require discounts for the bad coins, when they could. That's also why coins meant for an international audience where consistently of high quality, even when the domestic coins of the same issuer where being debased. (The Spanish dollar was a very good example of this. That's what the Americans used to use.) And that's exactly because while you can force your own subjects to accept your coins, you have to convince the foreigners. Reputation is key. No 'bad money drives out good money' here. Just the opposite.

drewzero1 3y ago

When our first cheap toaster broke, I tried to find a replacement part and then started really looking into a 'good' toaster. What I found is that there's pretty much the same metal box inside all toasters under about $200-- and even some of those seemed like they might use the same mechanism. (Cheap but costs a lot!) A few seemed like they might have slightly different control circuitry but not much else aside from the body shell. I even looked into making my own toaster (though not quite from scratch[0]) but eventually decided I wasn't willing to take on the risk of an untested electrical heating device, in the same way I would be wary of the cheapest toaster from ABCDEFG etc. on Amazon. Not long after, a customer brought a British-made toaster[1] into my repair shop. I had warned her about the impossibility of getting parts for toasters, but she'd actually already written in to the company and ordered a replacement heating element! It was surprisingly easy to work on, as the timer only controlled the heating element and the pop-up was a manual lever. At first glance that looked like a cheap solution, but on closer inspection it was built well and meant to last. (Costs a lot because it's not cheap.) I hear they still make some like that but the company's cheaper products aren't built the same. 0: https://www.dezeen.com/2009/06/27/the-toaster-project-by-thomas-thwaites/ https://www.dezeen.com/2009/06/27/the-toaster-project-by-tho... 1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dualit https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dualit

AtlasBarfed 3y ago

Consumer Reports is really the only objective measurement out there. Considering the various federal agencies do this for many many other things for certification/regs ... why not have them also do ratings? You need objective tests and experienced testers. We know from restaurant recommendations online (4 stars +/_ .2 stars for EVERYTHING) that in the general public there is far too much variance in "good". Of course the "experts" often fall into the "audiophile" trap in stereos, where a perfectly functional cheap alternative is downplayed for a laundry list of features or a pretty packaging. I mean, we are talking about toasters here. I wonder how much easier it is for OP to simply walk into China and get a factory setup to do this. Probably some bribes involved but the net cost might be less than regulatory approval here. Then get Chinese manufacturing work and the reverse-migrate a factory here. If I was overlord of the US, I would be actively pushing US companies to start doing this with heavy US government coopoeration. You know, like China did to us.

eru 3y ago
> [...] why not have them also do ratings? So the government is supposed to codify what makes pasta is tasty? Or whether pineapple on pizza is good or bad? > If I was overlord of the US, I would be actively pushing US companies to start doing this with heavy US government coopoeration. You know, like China did to us. Huh?