3 ms·

Yes. There are clearly different levels of severity and magnitude here (So no false equivalence, Jack!) but the act of averting your gaze is particularly submis

Yes. There are clearly different levels of severity and magnitude here (So no false equivalence, Jack!) but the act of averting your gaze is particularly submissive, IMO, and the act of asking it to be done is particularly aggressive. I do not ask my wife to avert her gaze, and I would not. It's a pernicious thing to ask of a human being. I would not ask anyone to censor that level of their experience and information gathering. So long as there's no signaling and no touching, truly what is the harm? Everyone should be free to exercise their curiosity. That is, truly, a human right. The very idea of it puts me in mind of a propaganda piece about the "male gaze" which was on Feminist Frequency. (Not the one that comes up easily in the search, but one which had no dialogue in the soundtrack.) The hate of men that comes off that thing is quite palpable!

whynotminot 3y ago
Oooh buddy your poor wife. Her: “Can you please not ogle every woman that walks by our table?” You: “How dare you impose this authoritarian regime upon me you man-hating harpy!”
wolverine876 3y ago
I hope you are just Internet philosophizing - a popular pastime - and you don't confuse it with real life and real relationships. That sort of thing is meant as an intellectual exercise and an outlet for (whatever someone is feeling), not as reality. It's not a power struggle; it's not a fight for survival. It's not the sympathetic nervous system, but the parasympathetic: not fight/flight/freeze, but growth and nurturance, compassion and love. I love to see them happy; I'm heartbroken to see them sad, and they feel the same. I want them to have everything. That's a normal, healthy relationship.
- stcredzero 3y ago
  I love to see them happy; I'm heartbroken to see them sad, and they feel the same. I want them to have everything. That's a normal, healthy relationship. Sorry, but that sounds like a one-sided relationship. No one can have everything they want in reality. It's always subject to negotiation, game theory, and economics. If partners always talk to each other in good faith, it all works out. Good partners keep each other in line. My wife doesn't let me have everything, and sometimes makes demands of me. I make demands of my wife, and she doesn't get everything either. It all comes down to honesty and accountability. Getting everything you want is either bribery or fantasy.
  - wolverine876 3y ago
    I wouldn't mention it, if it wasn't in context of relationships. Between the two of us, you are looking for problems AFAICT. You take "I want them to have everything" to some extreme and then critique it - it's finding things to critique. Good relationships follow the HN guidelines (not coincidentally): Be curious, not judgmental and don't leap to conclusions; e.g., what did I mean by that? There are many possibilities. Be charitable in interpretations - did I really mean that my partner should have literally everything? We end up in a debate that has nothing to do with anything I think or say, I'm just cornered - put in a spotlight to defend a position that has nothing to do with me.
    - stcredzero 3y ago
      Thanks for clarifying. So "I want them to have everything," isn't an argument for just acceding to a demand to avert your gaze? Wanting your partner to have everything is as emotionally understandable and foolish as wanting your child to have everything.
      - wolverine876 3y ago
        I genuinely want you to have everything too, including great relationships. Good luck. These are excerpts from a song by Lucinda Williams. I think of it sometimes in life, especially when people seem to demand that life and relationships be a lonely struggle for survival. I read that it was written for a friend of Williams who committed suicide. The breath from your own lips The touch of fingertips A sweet and tender kiss The sound of a midnight train Wearing someone's ring Someone calling your name Somebody so warm Cradled in your arm Didn't you think you were worth anything? Millions of us in love Promises made good Your own flesh and blood Looking for some truth Dancing with no shoes The beat, the rhythm, the blues Life isn't simple or easy, but the love is very real and very possible.
        peferron 3y ago
        Why don't you refer GP to a suicide hotline while you're at it? Your attitude in this thread has been repulsive.

whynotminot 3y ago

Oooh buddy your poor wife. Her: “Can you please not ogle every woman that walks by our table?” You: “How dare you impose this authoritarian regime upon me you man-hating harpy!”

wolverine876 3y ago

I hope you are just Internet philosophizing - a popular pastime - and you don't confuse it with real life and real relationships. That sort of thing is meant as an intellectual exercise and an outlet for (whatever someone is feeling), not as reality. It's not a power struggle; it's not a fight for survival. It's not the sympathetic nervous system, but the parasympathetic: not fight/flight/freeze, but growth and nurturance, compassion and love. I love to see them happy; I'm heartbroken to see them sad, and they feel the same. I want them to have everything. That's a normal, healthy relationship.

stcredzero 3y ago
I love to see them happy; I'm heartbroken to see them sad, and they feel the same. I want them to have everything. That's a normal, healthy relationship. Sorry, but that sounds like a one-sided relationship. No one can have everything they want in reality. It's always subject to negotiation, game theory, and economics. If partners always talk to each other in good faith, it all works out. Good partners keep each other in line. My wife doesn't let me have everything, and sometimes makes demands of me. I make demands of my wife, and she doesn't get everything either. It all comes down to honesty and accountability. Getting everything you want is either bribery or fantasy.
- wolverine876 3y ago
  I wouldn't mention it, if it wasn't in context of relationships. Between the two of us, you are looking for problems AFAICT. You take "I want them to have everything" to some extreme and then critique it - it's finding things to critique. Good relationships follow the HN guidelines (not coincidentally): Be curious, not judgmental and don't leap to conclusions; e.g., what did I mean by that? There are many possibilities. Be charitable in interpretations - did I really mean that my partner should have literally everything? We end up in a debate that has nothing to do with anything I think or say, I'm just cornered - put in a spotlight to defend a position that has nothing to do with me.
  - stcredzero 3y ago
    Thanks for clarifying. So "I want them to have everything," isn't an argument for just acceding to a demand to avert your gaze? Wanting your partner to have everything is as emotionally understandable and foolish as wanting your child to have everything.
    - wolverine876 3y ago
      I genuinely want you to have everything too, including great relationships. Good luck. These are excerpts from a song by Lucinda Williams. I think of it sometimes in life, especially when people seem to demand that life and relationships be a lonely struggle for survival. I read that it was written for a friend of Williams who committed suicide. The breath from your own lips The touch of fingertips A sweet and tender kiss The sound of a midnight train Wearing someone's ring Someone calling your name Somebody so warm Cradled in your arm Didn't you think you were worth anything? Millions of us in love Promises made good Your own flesh and blood Looking for some truth Dancing with no shoes The beat, the rhythm, the blues Life isn't simple or easy, but the love is very real and very possible.
      - peferron 3y ago
        Why don't you refer GP to a suicide hotline while you're at it? Your attitude in this thread has been repulsive.