4 ms·

I know that the world is essentially flat and that we shouldn't be so jingoistic anymore, but does it trouble anyone besides me that CERN is under the Swiss Alp

I know that the world is essentially flat and that we shouldn't be so jingoistic anymore, but does it trouble anyone besides me that CERN is under the Swiss Alps near Geneva instead of under the scorching sun in the New Mexico desert? Shouldn't the "greatest Superpower in World History" be the one crashing atoms together like NASCAR autos and seeing all the mess that comes out of it? Now that I think about it, maybe if we market it that way... I fear that the only advocate we have left for a strong scientific America is Neil deGrasse Tyson.

deleted 14y ago
[deleted]
_hiss 14y ago
"The sun never sets on CERN" Engineers at Fermilab in Batavia, IL performs CERN operations by day, in evening hours for the Swiss.
simonsarris 14y ago
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superconducting_Super_Collider http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superconducting_Super_Collider The United States planned one with a collision energy almost three times that of CERN. ...By 1993, the cost projection exceeded $12 billion. Congress officially canceled the project October 21, 1993 after $2 billion had been spent. The SSC cost was due largely to the massive civil engineering project of digging a huge tunnel underground. The LHC in contrast took over the pre-existing engineering infrastructure and 27 km long underground cavern of the Large Electron-Positron Collider, and used innovative magnet designs to bend the higher energy particles into the available tunnel. The LHC eventually cost the equivalent of about 5 billion US dollars to build.
- eternalban 14y ago
  http://costofwar.com/en/ http://costofwar.com/en/ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troubled_Asset_Relief_Program http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troubled_Asset_Relief_Program Basically, if it is health care, education, science, etc., our "representatives" are penny pinchers and will debate the issue until the end of days. Everything else gets signed in a day or the dead of night.
ajdecon 14y ago
As a (ex-)physicist, I don't particularly care where the experiments are taking place: cool science is being done, and the people at CERN are a pretty international bunch. They're also scattered around the world: I know a few people at the University of Michigan involved in the project, albeit mostly on the data analysis side of things. As an American... well, we've demonstrated that we don't plan to do any big particle physics locally anytime soon. http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2011-09-30/news/ct-met-fermilab-tevatron-closing-20110930_1_fermilab-director-pier-oddone-tevatron-particle-physics http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2011-09-30/news/ct-met-fe... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superconducting_Super_Collider http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superconducting_Super_Collider sigh
snowwrestler 14y ago
I think it is better to think of the LHC as a global scientific instrument that just happens to be located in Switzerland. I think it's culturally beneficial for science to be freed from nationalist impulses and become a joint enterprise of the world. As we learn more about the universe, the scale and expense of the leading edge of science will increase to the point that only global participation can afford (if we're not there already).
jff 14y ago
We're doing cutting-edge research into fusion just down the road from my house. We've got a variety of particle accelerators, gravity sensors spread across the country, the best supercomputing research in the world, etc. People come from around the world to do research in the US. I don't think it's a bad thing that important research is also happening in Europe, in fact I think it's great because it should help promote a two-way flow of ideas. Plus, it means you and I didn't have to pay for it!
smosher 14y ago
The work at CERN is for Science, not Religion (or misplaced Patriotism if you prefer.)
- DiabloD3 14y ago
  You monster.
- Create 14y ago
  The work at CERN is differentiated when it is performed by westerners or by people from the eastern side: "The cost [...] has been evaluated, taking into account realistic labor prices in different countries. The total cost is X (with a western equivalent value of Y)" [where Y>X] source: LHCb calorimeters : Technical Design Report ISBN: 9290831693 http://cdsweb.cern.ch/record/494264 http://cdsweb.cern.ch/record/494264 Western discrimination/patriotism is firmly in place.
lucianof 14y ago
Being Swiss myself, I can for the life of me not figure out why you should be troubled by this fact. Do you feel threatened by us? I understand you're worried about the state of science and education in the U.S., but on the other hand you cannot honestly assume that 100% of scientific and technologic breakthroughs are performed on 6.1%[1] of the world's land mass? I've been living in the U.S. for 3 months now, and the "American exceptionalism" assumption sometimes gets on my nerves.. [1] http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=U.S.+land+area+%2F+world+land+area http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=U.S.+land+area+%2F+worl...
- muhfuhkuh 14y ago
  Not as much threatened as forlorn about our seeming decline in status as a scientific hub for the world. I find solace somewhat in the breakthroughs we've discovered and developed over the years, but must sadly concede that, hey, people are doing sexy science-y stuff all over the place. We can't even come together for universal healthcare coverage, so maybe we don't deserve to be the lead dog of the sled.
  - Andrew_Quentin 14y ago
    Very nationalistic thinking.
    - v0cab 14y ago
      Not very nationalistic from an Asian perspective.
cnbeuiwx 14y ago
USA is only the "greatest Superpower in World History" if you look at the power of its army. But that is the kind of minds that rule the country.
- olalonde 14y ago
  Also if you look at its economy which is arguably an even more important characteristic.
tomjen3 14y ago
Why does that trouble you? Do you refuse to read books because the script isn't invented in the US? Do not US universities teach their CS students about Turing machines, because they were invented by a British guy? Get of your nationalistic horse and be happy that not only americans, but the entire world can do science. Someday the most advanced research center in the world may be in Africa, someday it may be in Russia, some day in China. Besides the Swiss are pretty close to neutral -- I can't even remember if they are members of the UN -- which means that the location is safe, politically.
Tloewald 14y ago
As the world's greatest superpower shouldn't we watch formula 1 and not NASCAR? Shouldn't was try to win international sporting competitions instead of calling national championships "world" championships? We don't like competing on level playing fields.

deleted 14y ago

[deleted]

_hiss 14y ago

"The sun never sets on CERN" Engineers at Fermilab in Batavia, IL performs CERN operations by day, in evening hours for the Swiss.

simonsarris 14y ago

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superconducting_Super_Collider http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superconducting_Super_Collider The United States planned one with a collision energy almost three times that of CERN. ...By 1993, the cost projection exceeded $12 billion. Congress officially canceled the project October 21, 1993 after $2 billion had been spent. The SSC cost was due largely to the massive civil engineering project of digging a huge tunnel underground. The LHC in contrast took over the pre-existing engineering infrastructure and 27 km long underground cavern of the Large Electron-Positron Collider, and used innovative magnet designs to bend the higher energy particles into the available tunnel. The LHC eventually cost the equivalent of about 5 billion US dollars to build.

eternalban 14y ago
http://costofwar.com/en/ http://costofwar.com/en/ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troubled_Asset_Relief_Program http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troubled_Asset_Relief_Program Basically, if it is health care, education, science, etc., our "representatives" are penny pinchers and will debate the issue until the end of days. Everything else gets signed in a day or the dead of night.

ajdecon 14y ago

As a (ex-)physicist, I don't particularly care where the experiments are taking place: cool science is being done, and the people at CERN are a pretty international bunch. They're also scattered around the world: I know a few people at the University of Michigan involved in the project, albeit mostly on the data analysis side of things. As an American... well, we've demonstrated that we don't plan to do any big particle physics locally anytime soon. http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2011-09-30/news/ct-met-fermilab-tevatron-closing-20110930_1_fermilab-director-pier-oddone-tevatron-particle-physics http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2011-09-30/news/ct-met-fe... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superconducting_Super_Collider http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superconducting_Super_Collider sigh

snowwrestler 14y ago

I think it is better to think of the LHC as a global scientific instrument that just happens to be located in Switzerland. I think it's culturally beneficial for science to be freed from nationalist impulses and become a joint enterprise of the world. As we learn more about the universe, the scale and expense of the leading edge of science will increase to the point that only global participation can afford (if we're not there already).

jff 14y ago

We're doing cutting-edge research into fusion just down the road from my house. We've got a variety of particle accelerators, gravity sensors spread across the country, the best supercomputing research in the world, etc. People come from around the world to do research in the US. I don't think it's a bad thing that important research is also happening in Europe, in fact I think it's great because it should help promote a two-way flow of ideas. Plus, it means you and I didn't have to pay for it!

smosher 14y ago

The work at CERN is for Science, not Religion (or misplaced Patriotism if you prefer.)

DiabloD3 14y ago
You monster.
Create 14y ago
The work at CERN is differentiated when it is performed by westerners or by people from the eastern side: "The cost [...] has been evaluated, taking into account realistic labor prices in different countries. The total cost is X (with a western equivalent value of Y)" [where Y>X] source: LHCb calorimeters : Technical Design Report ISBN: 9290831693 http://cdsweb.cern.ch/record/494264 http://cdsweb.cern.ch/record/494264 Western discrimination/patriotism is firmly in place.

lucianof 14y ago

Being Swiss myself, I can for the life of me not figure out why you should be troubled by this fact. Do you feel threatened by us? I understand you're worried about the state of science and education in the U.S., but on the other hand you cannot honestly assume that 100% of scientific and technologic breakthroughs are performed on 6.1%[1] of the world's land mass? I've been living in the U.S. for 3 months now, and the "American exceptionalism" assumption sometimes gets on my nerves.. [1] http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=U.S.+land+area+%2F+world+land+area http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=U.S.+land+area+%2F+worl...

muhfuhkuh 14y ago
Not as much threatened as forlorn about our seeming decline in status as a scientific hub for the world. I find solace somewhat in the breakthroughs we've discovered and developed over the years, but must sadly concede that, hey, people are doing sexy science-y stuff all over the place. We can't even come together for universal healthcare coverage, so maybe we don't deserve to be the lead dog of the sled.
- Andrew_Quentin 14y ago
  Very nationalistic thinking.
  - v0cab 14y ago
    Not very nationalistic from an Asian perspective.

cnbeuiwx 14y ago

USA is only the "greatest Superpower in World History" if you look at the power of its army. But that is the kind of minds that rule the country.

olalonde 14y ago
Also if you look at its economy which is arguably an even more important characteristic.

tomjen3 14y ago

Why does that trouble you? Do you refuse to read books because the script isn't invented in the US? Do not US universities teach their CS students about Turing machines, because they were invented by a British guy? Get of your nationalistic horse and be happy that not only americans, but the entire world can do science. Someday the most advanced research center in the world may be in Africa, someday it may be in Russia, some day in China. Besides the Swiss are pretty close to neutral -- I can't even remember if they are members of the UN -- which means that the location is safe, politically.

Tloewald 14y ago

As the world's greatest superpower shouldn't we watch formula 1 and not NASCAR? Shouldn't was try to win international sporting competitions instead of calling national championships "world" championships? We don't like competing on level playing fields.