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Trying to imagine the transmission capacity required to pull off routing all of the world's electricity from a single place in North Africa. However, it seems

Trying to imagine the transmission capacity required to pull off routing all of the world's electricity from a single place in North Africa. However, it seems like their model just shows a modest-ish heat island effect? It's not clear that the change in the albedo from even covering 50% of the Sahara in PV panels is much worse than the likely effects of climate change under the typical +2 degree C climate model?

defrost 3y ago
They're still barely ankle deep in analysis to be honest. Saharan sand has some not obvious from the outset effects on global climatic patterns (it's worth a look into). More than 60 percent of the 1.5 billion tons of mineral-rich dust present in the earth's atmosphere comes from the Sahara. Individual dust clouds can reach a size of 500,000 square kilometers, an area equivalent to that of Spain. As these dust particles are only airborne for a short while, it's difficult to analyze the full extent of their impact. https://www.britannica.com/video/179439/Overview-desert-sand-climate-effects-focus-Sahara https://www.britannica.com/video/179439/Overview-desert-sand... How would a significant chunk of area under PV panelling ... * survive abrasive desert conditions, * alter local wind | sand movement patterns, * affect other parts of the globe that until now had saharan sand as an input.
- gumby 3y ago
  BTW the iron content of that airborne dust turns bermuda pink, fertilizes the Amazon, and drives the destruction of atmospheric methane.
  - the_sleaze9 3y ago
    Fascinating - is there any chance you have some links about this?
    - gumby 3y ago
      A web image search of Bermuda will show you plenty of pink. There’s evens a “Bermuda pink “ color. The first link when I did a search for “Sahara fertilizes Amazon”: https://blog.education.nationalgeographic.org/2015/02/26/watch-the-sahara-fertilize-the-amazon/ https://blog.education.nationalgeographic.org/2015/02/26/wat... Where I work: https://www.bluedotchange.com/science https://www.bluedotchange.com/science
onlyrealcuzzo 3y ago
It wouldn't make any sense to generate the world's energy centrally and transmit - economically, politically, etc. The Americas could generate 100% of energy needed from <0.25% of land in Texas, Arizona, New Mexico, Nevada, California, Chihuahua, and Atacama. And even that wouldn't make sense - because there's so many other places to generate solar, transmission is expensive, and you want your generation decentralized due to weather and many other reasons. Why would China buy solar from Sahara when they have the solar radiation to get it domestically from Southwest Tibet?
- Loughla 3y ago
  This is the part of the argument that gets ignored when people talk about all the sunny deserts that are available. Why would you want a majority of your power generation in one easy to attack location?
  - nico_h 3y ago
    There are numerous points of failure in any grid. the big power generators and transformers are hard to hide targets. A big surface area of solar panel is much less dense in terms of power generation per square feet. So you would need a lot of ordinance to meaningfully decrease its output (except at transformer points, but that’s like in any grid).
  - AniseAbyss 3y ago
    That already happened. Wiki the OPEC crisis of the 1970s or more recently Russia's invasion of Ukraine.

defrost 3y ago

They're still barely ankle deep in analysis to be honest. Saharan sand has some not obvious from the outset effects on global climatic patterns (it's worth a look into). More than 60 percent of the 1.5 billion tons of mineral-rich dust present in the earth's atmosphere comes from the Sahara. Individual dust clouds can reach a size of 500,000 square kilometers, an area equivalent to that of Spain. As these dust particles are only airborne for a short while, it's difficult to analyze the full extent of their impact. https://www.britannica.com/video/179439/Overview-desert-sand-climate-effects-focus-Sahara https://www.britannica.com/video/179439/Overview-desert-sand... How would a significant chunk of area under PV panelling ... * survive abrasive desert conditions, * alter local wind | sand movement patterns, * affect other parts of the globe that until now had saharan sand as an input.

gumby 3y ago
BTW the iron content of that airborne dust turns bermuda pink, fertilizes the Amazon, and drives the destruction of atmospheric methane.
- the_sleaze9 3y ago
  Fascinating - is there any chance you have some links about this?
  - gumby 3y ago
    A web image search of Bermuda will show you plenty of pink. There’s evens a “Bermuda pink “ color. The first link when I did a search for “Sahara fertilizes Amazon”: https://blog.education.nationalgeographic.org/2015/02/26/watch-the-sahara-fertilize-the-amazon/ https://blog.education.nationalgeographic.org/2015/02/26/wat... Where I work: https://www.bluedotchange.com/science https://www.bluedotchange.com/science

onlyrealcuzzo 3y ago

It wouldn't make any sense to generate the world's energy centrally and transmit - economically, politically, etc. The Americas could generate 100% of energy needed from <0.25% of land in Texas, Arizona, New Mexico, Nevada, California, Chihuahua, and Atacama. And even that wouldn't make sense - because there's so many other places to generate solar, transmission is expensive, and you want your generation decentralized due to weather and many other reasons. Why would China buy solar from Sahara when they have the solar radiation to get it domestically from Southwest Tibet?

Loughla 3y ago
This is the part of the argument that gets ignored when people talk about all the sunny deserts that are available. Why would you want a majority of your power generation in one easy to attack location?
- nico_h 3y ago
  There are numerous points of failure in any grid. the big power generators and transformers are hard to hide targets. A big surface area of solar panel is much less dense in terms of power generation per square feet. So you would need a lot of ordinance to meaningfully decrease its output (except at transformer points, but that’s like in any grid).
- AniseAbyss 3y ago
  That already happened. Wiki the OPEC crisis of the 1970s or more recently Russia's invasion of Ukraine.