8 ms·

Victorian Glass Fire Grenades (2020)

127 points by RyanShook 3y ago

renewiltord 3y ago
Fucking brilliant. It's meant to put out a fire. You grab it by the handle and toss it at the fire. But it contains too little liquid. Anyway, they switched to using Carbon Tetrachloride which is good at smothering flames, except if it is heated to 200 C at which point it turns into phosgene which is a chemical weapon. Brilliant. This was great.
- jtha 3y ago
  Ah yes, the good old days.
- userbinator 3y ago
  Carbon tet was just the beginning; advances in halocarbon chemistry eventually lead to the Halon family of extinguishing agents.
- eternityforest 3y ago
  As a bonus feature, any unreacted carbon tetrachloride is still horrendous even without phosgene conversion. Truly an excellent product, modern stuff just isn't made anywhere near as well.
- petesergeant 3y ago
  There's a Thai company that's been making a modern version (something you throw at a fire) for a while: https://www.elidefire.com/ https://www.elidefire.com/
  - jws 3y ago
    "Funny" regulatory story on those. They are not legal in the US since the regulators decided they were fire extinguishers and then compared them to the rules for fire extinguishers. They noted the lack of a nozzle, gauge, and locking device and proclaimed them out of compliance. They also noted that there are fires the balls do not put out, which to be fair, is kind of true for everything except the heat death of the universe. It's a shame. It would probably be a good thing to keep over a domestic laser cutter or 3d printer.
    - a_gnostic 3y ago
      Keep it there as a novelty ornament. –Certainly not as a fire extinguisher… that would be illegal!
      - OJFord 3y ago
        I'm neither a lawyer nor familiar with US law/regulatory stuff or US consumer - but I assume the point is that it's not legal to sell it as a fire extinguisher, nor to use it to satisfy fire extinguishing equipment requirements for your office building or whatever. Not that you're breaking the law if you have in your home, whatever you want to use it for (unless you're required to have a fire extinguisher, in which case you'd just have it in addition, if I'm correct).
    - ssl-3 3y ago
      "Legal" or not, they're still readily available from the usual sources and I do keep one near the more-experimental of the 3D printers. For those who aren't familiar, they're more-or-less a firework: Cardboard shell with redundant fuses wrapped around it to activate a charge inside, and with fire-putter-outer powder (IIRC sodium bicarb, but maybe something else) instead of stars. This whole thing is then wrapped in thin plastic. Operation is simple: Fuse lights, because fire. It burns fast, by design. It explodes. The area is covered in powder. It might even work. (Might make things worse, too, but things are already awful by this point.)
      - petesergeant 3y ago
        > For those who aren't familiar, they're more-or-less a firework There's something beautifully, wonderfully Thai about creating fireworks to throw at fires. Also, this video: https://www.elidefire.com/performance-testing https://www.elidefire.com/performance-testing
      - kragen 3y ago
        that's brilliant! i'd assumed it was monoammonium phosphate. i'd much rather cover my electronics in sodium carbonate than in phosphoric acid
  - alister 3y ago
    That's a pretty cool product IMO. Even more interesting than throwing it into a fire is how it can be mounted above stoves, junction boxes, or inside a car's engine compartment to put out fires where they start.
  - OJFord 3y ago
    I like how they made it spherical, then ship it with a stand/container thing you can put it in so it doesn't roll away... https://image.makewebeasy.net/makeweb/0/TqWSxlyoO/ProjectRefs/29_min__1_1_1_.png?v=202311151122 https://image.makewebeasy.net/makeweb/0/TqWSxlyoO/ProjectRef... ... it could just be a cube?! But maybe there was already a cube shaped fire extinguishing device, and it wouldn't be: > The Leading, Original, and Most Trusted Fire Extinguishing [Cube] brand
- hinkley 3y ago
  Well, on the plus side, at least you're not being slowly cooked to death anymore.
  - otteromkram 3y ago
    Well, phosgene might take 24 hours before the negative effects kick in.
nickpinkston 3y ago
I was imagining the glass "Sticky Bomb" style grenade the UK made in WWII as anti-tank grenades, with some limited success, though getting close enough to stick the grenade onto a tank was doubtless harrowing. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sticky_bomb https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sticky_bomb
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
hinkley 3y ago
> That was dangerous enough, but at 200-400C carbon [tetrachloride] also reacts with water to form phosgene gas, which was used as a chemical weapon in World War One. It is said that 85% of the 900,000 deaths attributed to gas were from phosgene so it was a pretty dangerous substance to have in your home or factory. How much of modern longevity is sanitation, sterilization, and medicine, and how much is just not doing really, really dumb things anymore?
- pardoned_turkey 3y ago
  In private life, we probably do more "dumb things" than we used to. The number of people dying in car accidents or due to drug overdoses is absolutely staggering and is a fairly recent phenomenon. The gains from banning lawn darts and no longer using fire grenades are inconsequential in comparison. To be fair, workplace safety has improved quite a bit - some of it thanks to regulation, some due to economic shifts (less mining, more office work). This improved the life expectancy of lower-class men. But that aside, a lot of the gains in life expectancy have to do with very basic things - like flush toilets, along with generally improved standards of living.
  - a_gnostic 3y ago
    Can't have workplace accidents, if your factory moved to China…
  - lettergram 3y ago
    > In private life, we probably do more "dumb things" than we used to. The number of people dying in car accidents or due to drug overdoses is absolutely staggering and is a fairly recent phenomenon. The gains from banning lawn darts and no longer using fire grenades are inconsequential in comparison. I would consider drug overdoses dramatically different than car accidents. To the point, "dumb things" where you put deadly chemical in jar (fire extinguisher) is not the same as purposely injecting yourself or accidentally losing control of your vehicle. For what it's worth, while drug fatalities are increasing (arguably there was an intentional act to start drugs, granted addition is less so): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_drug_overdose_death_rates_and_totals_over_time https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_drug_overdose_de... Vehicle fatalities are actually going down per year (and have been, on average, since the inception of the car) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_vehicle_fatality_rate_in_U.S._by_year https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_vehicle_fatality_rate_in... > But that aside, a lot of the gains in life expectancy have to do with very basic things - like flush toilets, along with generally improved standards of living. I agree with you there, lots of minor things like vitamins, clean water, improved environmental controls, etc add up dramatically
orbitingpluto 3y ago
Available on Amazon. Usually zero reviews. But there is that screenshot circling around of a 1-star review based on someone attempting to and failing to put out a campfire. If you rely on these and you end up dying, you can make a personal application for a full refund.
po 3y ago
I have a very similar thing... it's called an Elide Fire Ball. https://www.elidefire.com https://www.elidefire.com I have a small room with some of my electronics and hobby stuff in it that is slightly more likely to cause a fire than elsewhere so I mounted one of these on the wall. I figure it may not work 100% but it can't hurt if a fire breaks out in that room and it works unattended.
- walthamstow 3y ago
  They're popular for grow rooms as well
GeorgeRichard 3y ago
The rather good YouTube channel "Our Own Devices" has a couple of interesting episodes about these: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iNhjfk9BTNA&pp=ygUcb3VyIG93biBkZXZpY2VzIGZpcmUgZ3JlbmFkZQ%3D%3D https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iNhjfk9BTNA&pp=ygUcb3VyIG93b... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWA-M590bhY&pp=ygUcb3VyIG93biBkZXZpY2VzIGZpcmUgZ3JlbmFkZQ%3D%3D https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWA-M590bhY&pp=ygUcb3VyIG93b...
- hilbert42 3y ago
  Since my comments here some days ago I've now had time to follow your links in more detail and it's not only the info on Victorian Glass Fire Grenades that I've found interesting on YouTube's Our Own Devices but also the channel hosts a plethora of excellently produced videos that are both fascinating and diverse in topic. I'd never come across Our Own Devices previously so I'm very pleased you posted the links as I reckon the channel ought to be more widely known to HN's audience. What's truly impressive about the channel is the sheer diversity of its subject matter and the depth in which each subject is covered. From my limited search I find Our Own Devices is authored by a Canadian, a former mechanical engineer turned author by the name of Gilles Messier. What's stunning about Messier is that he has an almost encyclopedic knowledge of the subject matter that he covers in his videos. Whilst that's not surprising of itself—as many YouTube-ers have a vast knowledge of their subject—what's amazing about Messier is the sheer diversity and range of his knowledge which spreads over many fields. This became obvious to me when viewing Rotary Phones: the Call of History when Messier made almost throwaway mention of a couple of obscure rather minor historical technical facts that would not be common knowledge to today's experts in telephony due to that they have been superseded and irrelevant for decades. The only reason I know about them is because of my electronics background and that I'm considerably older than he is, thus I've accumulated historical knowledge that would be unfamiliar to younger viewers. Even then, the only reason that I'm aware of these facts is that I recall a decades-old conversation I had with a professional in telephony who mention them. (I won't bore you with the details except to say I wouldn't have expected Messier to be so very fluent and accurare in historical detail.) Messier either has a photographic memory or he scrupulously researchs his topics, or both (he says he doesn't use a teleprompter when talking to camera so his memory must be excellent). Every video I've watched on Our Own Devices I've found fascinating and informative, I always learn something new even with topics with which I am familiar. As a technology nerd I find this channel and Messier's presentation addictive.
philsnow 3y ago
> the Harden Star Grenade, which was produced in a beautiful royal blue coloured bottle I think that color is better described as cobalt blue https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cobalt_glass https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cobalt_glass
firesteelrain 3y ago
These look awfully like the things they tell people to mount above their 3D printer in case of fire. Interesting
bell-cot 3y ago
Context: These were a thing from ~1880 to ~1925. An era when fire (candles, oil lamps, etc.) was routinely used for home and workplace lighting, heating, and cooking. And "the building burned down" fires were vastly more common. And nothing remotely resembling modern fire-fighting equipment was available to the Fire Dept. - if your area even had one of those.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
xkcd-sucks 3y ago
Reminded me of a "cool science trick" I saw in a kids' book from the 1920s: Cold fire you can hold in your bare hand Is holding in your hands a 1:1 mixture of carbon tetrachloride + carbon disulfide that you light on fire

127 points by RyanShook 3y ago

Fucking brilliant. It's meant to put out a fire. You grab it by the handle and toss it at the fire. But it contains too little liquid. Anyway, they switched to using Carbon Tetrachloride which is good at smothering flames, except if it is heated to 200 C at which point it turns into phosgene which is a chemical weapon. Brilliant. This was great.

jtha 3y ago
Ah yes, the good old days.
userbinator 3y ago
Carbon tet was just the beginning; advances in halocarbon chemistry eventually lead to the Halon family of extinguishing agents.
eternityforest 3y ago
As a bonus feature, any unreacted carbon tetrachloride is still horrendous even without phosgene conversion. Truly an excellent product, modern stuff just isn't made anywhere near as well.
petesergeant 3y ago
There's a Thai company that's been making a modern version (something you throw at a fire) for a while: https://www.elidefire.com/ https://www.elidefire.com/
- jws 3y ago
  "Funny" regulatory story on those. They are not legal in the US since the regulators decided they were fire extinguishers and then compared them to the rules for fire extinguishers. They noted the lack of a nozzle, gauge, and locking device and proclaimed them out of compliance. They also noted that there are fires the balls do not put out, which to be fair, is kind of true for everything except the heat death of the universe. It's a shame. It would probably be a good thing to keep over a domestic laser cutter or 3d printer.
  - a_gnostic 3y ago
    Keep it there as a novelty ornament. –Certainly not as a fire extinguisher… that would be illegal!
    - OJFord 3y ago
      I'm neither a lawyer nor familiar with US law/regulatory stuff or US consumer - but I assume the point is that it's not legal to sell it as a fire extinguisher, nor to use it to satisfy fire extinguishing equipment requirements for your office building or whatever. Not that you're breaking the law if you have in your home, whatever you want to use it for (unless you're required to have a fire extinguisher, in which case you'd just have it in addition, if I'm correct).
  - ssl-3 3y ago
    "Legal" or not, they're still readily available from the usual sources and I do keep one near the more-experimental of the 3D printers. For those who aren't familiar, they're more-or-less a firework: Cardboard shell with redundant fuses wrapped around it to activate a charge inside, and with fire-putter-outer powder (IIRC sodium bicarb, but maybe something else) instead of stars. This whole thing is then wrapped in thin plastic. Operation is simple: Fuse lights, because fire. It burns fast, by design. It explodes. The area is covered in powder. It might even work. (Might make things worse, too, but things are already awful by this point.)
    - petesergeant 3y ago
      > For those who aren't familiar, they're more-or-less a firework There's something beautifully, wonderfully Thai about creating fireworks to throw at fires. Also, this video: https://www.elidefire.com/performance-testing https://www.elidefire.com/performance-testing
    - kragen 3y ago
      that's brilliant! i'd assumed it was monoammonium phosphate. i'd much rather cover my electronics in sodium carbonate than in phosphoric acid
- alister 3y ago
  That's a pretty cool product IMO. Even more interesting than throwing it into a fire is how it can be mounted above stoves, junction boxes, or inside a car's engine compartment to put out fires where they start.
- OJFord 3y ago
  I like how they made it spherical, then ship it with a stand/container thing you can put it in so it doesn't roll away... https://image.makewebeasy.net/makeweb/0/TqWSxlyoO/ProjectRefs/29_min__1_1_1_.png?v=202311151122 https://image.makewebeasy.net/makeweb/0/TqWSxlyoO/ProjectRef... ... it could just be a cube?! But maybe there was already a cube shaped fire extinguishing device, and it wouldn't be: > The Leading, Original, and Most Trusted Fire Extinguishing [Cube] brand
hinkley 3y ago
Well, on the plus side, at least you're not being slowly cooked to death anymore.
- otteromkram 3y ago
  Well, phosgene might take 24 hours before the negative effects kick in.

nickpinkston 3y ago

I was imagining the glass "Sticky Bomb" style grenade the UK made in WWII as anti-tank grenades, with some limited success, though getting close enough to stick the grenade onto a tank was doubtless harrowing. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sticky_bomb https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sticky_bomb

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

hinkley 3y ago

> That was dangerous enough, but at 200-400C carbon [tetrachloride] also reacts with water to form phosgene gas, which was used as a chemical weapon in World War One. It is said that 85% of the 900,000 deaths attributed to gas were from phosgene so it was a pretty dangerous substance to have in your home or factory. How much of modern longevity is sanitation, sterilization, and medicine, and how much is just not doing really, really dumb things anymore?

pardoned_turkey 3y ago
In private life, we probably do more "dumb things" than we used to. The number of people dying in car accidents or due to drug overdoses is absolutely staggering and is a fairly recent phenomenon. The gains from banning lawn darts and no longer using fire grenades are inconsequential in comparison. To be fair, workplace safety has improved quite a bit - some of it thanks to regulation, some due to economic shifts (less mining, more office work). This improved the life expectancy of lower-class men. But that aside, a lot of the gains in life expectancy have to do with very basic things - like flush toilets, along with generally improved standards of living.
- a_gnostic 3y ago
  Can't have workplace accidents, if your factory moved to China…
- lettergram 3y ago
  > In private life, we probably do more "dumb things" than we used to. The number of people dying in car accidents or due to drug overdoses is absolutely staggering and is a fairly recent phenomenon. The gains from banning lawn darts and no longer using fire grenades are inconsequential in comparison. I would consider drug overdoses dramatically different than car accidents. To the point, "dumb things" where you put deadly chemical in jar (fire extinguisher) is not the same as purposely injecting yourself or accidentally losing control of your vehicle. For what it's worth, while drug fatalities are increasing (arguably there was an intentional act to start drugs, granted addition is less so): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_drug_overdose_death_rates_and_totals_over_time https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_drug_overdose_de... Vehicle fatalities are actually going down per year (and have been, on average, since the inception of the car) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_vehicle_fatality_rate_in_U.S._by_year https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_vehicle_fatality_rate_in... > But that aside, a lot of the gains in life expectancy have to do with very basic things - like flush toilets, along with generally improved standards of living. I agree with you there, lots of minor things like vitamins, clean water, improved environmental controls, etc add up dramatically

orbitingpluto 3y ago

Available on Amazon. Usually zero reviews. But there is that screenshot circling around of a 1-star review based on someone attempting to and failing to put out a campfire. If you rely on these and you end up dying, you can make a personal application for a full refund.

po 3y ago

I have a very similar thing... it's called an Elide Fire Ball. https://www.elidefire.com https://www.elidefire.com I have a small room with some of my electronics and hobby stuff in it that is slightly more likely to cause a fire than elsewhere so I mounted one of these on the wall. I figure it may not work 100% but it can't hurt if a fire breaks out in that room and it works unattended.

walthamstow 3y ago
They're popular for grow rooms as well

GeorgeRichard 3y ago

The rather good YouTube channel "Our Own Devices" has a couple of interesting episodes about these: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iNhjfk9BTNA&pp=ygUcb3VyIG93biBkZXZpY2VzIGZpcmUgZ3JlbmFkZQ%3D%3D https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iNhjfk9BTNA&pp=ygUcb3VyIG93b... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWA-M590bhY&pp=ygUcb3VyIG93biBkZXZpY2VzIGZpcmUgZ3JlbmFkZQ%3D%3D https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWA-M590bhY&pp=ygUcb3VyIG93b...

hilbert42 3y ago
Since my comments here some days ago I've now had time to follow your links in more detail and it's not only the info on Victorian Glass Fire Grenades that I've found interesting on YouTube's Our Own Devices but also the channel hosts a plethora of excellently produced videos that are both fascinating and diverse in topic. I'd never come across Our Own Devices previously so I'm very pleased you posted the links as I reckon the channel ought to be more widely known to HN's audience. What's truly impressive about the channel is the sheer diversity of its subject matter and the depth in which each subject is covered. From my limited search I find Our Own Devices is authored by a Canadian, a former mechanical engineer turned author by the name of Gilles Messier. What's stunning about Messier is that he has an almost encyclopedic knowledge of the subject matter that he covers in his videos. Whilst that's not surprising of itself—as many YouTube-ers have a vast knowledge of their subject—what's amazing about Messier is the sheer diversity and range of his knowledge which spreads over many fields. This became obvious to me when viewing Rotary Phones: the Call of History when Messier made almost throwaway mention of a couple of obscure rather minor historical technical facts that would not be common knowledge to today's experts in telephony due to that they have been superseded and irrelevant for decades. The only reason I know about them is because of my electronics background and that I'm considerably older than he is, thus I've accumulated historical knowledge that would be unfamiliar to younger viewers. Even then, the only reason that I'm aware of these facts is that I recall a decades-old conversation I had with a professional in telephony who mention them. (I won't bore you with the details except to say I wouldn't have expected Messier to be so very fluent and accurare in historical detail.) Messier either has a photographic memory or he scrupulously researchs his topics, or both (he says he doesn't use a teleprompter when talking to camera so his memory must be excellent). Every video I've watched on Our Own Devices I've found fascinating and informative, I always learn something new even with topics with which I am familiar. As a technology nerd I find this channel and Messier's presentation addictive.

philsnow 3y ago

> the Harden Star Grenade, which was produced in a beautiful royal blue coloured bottle I think that color is better described as cobalt blue https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cobalt_glass https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cobalt_glass

firesteelrain 3y ago

These look awfully like the things they tell people to mount above their 3D printer in case of fire. Interesting

bell-cot 3y ago

Context: These were a thing from ~1880 to ~1925. An era when fire (candles, oil lamps, etc.) was routinely used for home and workplace lighting, heating, and cooking. And "the building burned down" fires were vastly more common. And nothing remotely resembling modern fire-fighting equipment was available to the Fire Dept. - if your area even had one of those.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

xkcd-sucks 3y ago

Reminded me of a "cool science trick" I saw in a kids' book from the 1920s: Cold fire you can hold in your bare hand Is holding in your hands a 1:1 mixture of carbon tetrachloride + carbon disulfide that you light on fire