3 ms·

People in the valley seem to be quite different from people in the southern states (the only part of the US that I have been to). I wonder if the differences wi

by jansan 3y ago

People in the valley seem to be quite different from people in the southern states (the only part of the US that I have been to). I wonder if the differences within the USA are actually be as significant as the differences between parts of the US and Europe.

PaulDavisThe1st 3y ago
When I first visited the US in 1981, I was pretty convinced (as a young, naive and somewhat ignorant Brit) that the differences between someone from New Orleans and someone from Portland, Maine were far greater than anything you could find between any two parts of Europe. Decades later, that's clearly an exaggeration or just plain wrong, but it is certainly true that people do underestimate cultural differences within the US, and overestimate them within Europe.
- Jensson 3y ago
  I don't think people overestimate the cultural difference between Finland and Italy for example, they are extremely different. The language barriers makes Europe much more culturally diverse, but also makes that diversity much harder to discover since you can't fully understand a culture without learning its language. It is more like the cultural difference between Canada and Mexico, you don't have such a wide spread within USA. You have some parts that is more like Canadians, and some parts more like Mexicans, but Mexico to Canada is still a bigger cultural leap than anything within USA.
  - PaulDavisThe1st 3y ago
    I think that the language diversity tends to make it less apparent that people are actually more alike than they seem. I am not claiming that Finns and Italians as a culture are identical other than language, just that the language difference makes them seem more different than they actually are. The opposite is true in the USA: nearly everyone speaking English to each other, watching the same TV shows, driving the same cars, eating the same breakfast cereals - easy to believe they must all be culturally very similar, when in fact they are not.
    - Jensson 3y ago
      We know there are differences within countries, but those differences tend to get exaggerated since you live in them. Even in European countries people tend to say "People from city X are very brash, people from city Y are very warm and welcoming", so they know that even though they consume the same news, speak the same language etc things can be different. Or they say "People from area X are very racist, area Y is very liberal". But we also know that there are much bigger differences if you cross many national borders and language barriers by going to the other side of Europe, they too will have those micro differences but when going there you also get many major macro differences.
- avhception 3y ago
  Case in point: in German, we even have the same words. They are mildly antiquated, but "Gesellig" and "Geselle" are almost 1:1 translations from the Dutch "gezellig" and "gezel". As a German who has worked in the Netherlands, I never felt a big difference in everyday attitude (though I have to admit the company is based very near to the German border, so maybe the differences would be bigger when compared to Amsterdam or something).
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - ahazred8ta 3y ago
    So, where do you stand on Oachkatzlschwoaf versus Eichhörnchenschwanz? O:-)
    - avhception 3y ago
      As a middle-western German, it's obviously Eichhörnchenschwanz! Haha ;)
  - jansan 3y ago
    Even more, in north western Germany they have a dialect called "Plattdeutsch" that is closer to the Dutch language than to German.
    - ahazred8ta 3y ago
      https://pdc.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pennsilfaanisch_Deitsch https://pdc.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pennsilfaanisch_Deitsch The Pennsylvania 'Dutch' Pälzisch dialect is enough to give a headache... https://pfl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Riograndenser_Hunsr%C3%BCckisch https://pfl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Riograndenser_Hunsr%C3%BCckis... Pälz-Portuguese creole
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
jackcosgrove 3y ago
Reading through the article, I very much sympathized with the author's Dutch attitudes towards American mannerisms. And I'm American. All of my life I've felt at a distance from others who exhibit typical American social habits, and have actually got along better with people from various other cultures such as eastern Europe. (There are a lot of first and second generation immigrants from eastern Europe where I live in the US.) I have always been perceived as rude and blunt, and in recent years those with typically American social attitudes have even begun pathologizing behaviors like mine as being "on the spectrum". As to why I am like this was a mystery to me in childhood. I acted just like my family and extended did! Everything was normal at home, and then I would treat someone at school like I would treat a sibling and it would result in arched eyebrows. Turns out my family's attitudes towards socializing were strongly influenced by my mother, since she was a stay at home parent. And she came from a part of the US made up of small agricultural communities that were mostly German and Dutch in origin. These small communities had transplanted their national cultures in little bubbles all over the US, and by dint of mostly isolation from the broader culture had maintained those mores for centuries. It was only when my mother had moved away to the city that this culture shock occurred, about 150 years after immigration. So yes, there is a lot of cultural variation in the US, probably not as much as in Europe, but it exists. There are subcultures within the US of various vintages that exist alongside the mainstream culture that have all learned how to be different and coexist at the same time.

by jansan 3y ago

PaulDavisThe1st 3y ago

When I first visited the US in 1981, I was pretty convinced (as a young, naive and somewhat ignorant Brit) that the differences between someone from New Orleans and someone from Portland, Maine were far greater than anything you could find between any two parts of Europe. Decades later, that's clearly an exaggeration or just plain wrong, but it is certainly true that people do underestimate cultural differences within the US, and overestimate them within Europe.

Jensson 3y ago
I don't think people overestimate the cultural difference between Finland and Italy for example, they are extremely different. The language barriers makes Europe much more culturally diverse, but also makes that diversity much harder to discover since you can't fully understand a culture without learning its language. It is more like the cultural difference between Canada and Mexico, you don't have such a wide spread within USA. You have some parts that is more like Canadians, and some parts more like Mexicans, but Mexico to Canada is still a bigger cultural leap than anything within USA.
- PaulDavisThe1st 3y ago
  I think that the language diversity tends to make it less apparent that people are actually more alike than they seem. I am not claiming that Finns and Italians as a culture are identical other than language, just that the language difference makes them seem more different than they actually are. The opposite is true in the USA: nearly everyone speaking English to each other, watching the same TV shows, driving the same cars, eating the same breakfast cereals - easy to believe they must all be culturally very similar, when in fact they are not.
  - Jensson 3y ago
    We know there are differences within countries, but those differences tend to get exaggerated since you live in them. Even in European countries people tend to say "People from city X are very brash, people from city Y are very warm and welcoming", so they know that even though they consume the same news, speak the same language etc things can be different. Or they say "People from area X are very racist, area Y is very liberal". But we also know that there are much bigger differences if you cross many national borders and language barriers by going to the other side of Europe, they too will have those micro differences but when going there you also get many major macro differences.
avhception 3y ago
Case in point: in German, we even have the same words. They are mildly antiquated, but "Gesellig" and "Geselle" are almost 1:1 translations from the Dutch "gezellig" and "gezel". As a German who has worked in the Netherlands, I never felt a big difference in everyday attitude (though I have to admit the company is based very near to the German border, so maybe the differences would be bigger when compared to Amsterdam or something).
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- ahazred8ta 3y ago
  So, where do you stand on Oachkatzlschwoaf versus Eichhörnchenschwanz? O:-)
  - avhception 3y ago
    As a middle-western German, it's obviously Eichhörnchenschwanz! Haha ;)
- jansan 3y ago
  Even more, in north western Germany they have a dialect called "Plattdeutsch" that is closer to the Dutch language than to German.
  - ahazred8ta 3y ago
    https://pdc.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pennsilfaanisch_Deitsch https://pdc.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pennsilfaanisch_Deitsch The Pennsylvania 'Dutch' Pälzisch dialect is enough to give a headache... https://pfl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Riograndenser_Hunsr%C3%BCckisch https://pfl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Riograndenser_Hunsr%C3%BCckis... Pälz-Portuguese creole
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

jackcosgrove 3y ago

Reading through the article, I very much sympathized with the author's Dutch attitudes towards American mannerisms. And I'm American. All of my life I've felt at a distance from others who exhibit typical American social habits, and have actually got along better with people from various other cultures such as eastern Europe. (There are a lot of first and second generation immigrants from eastern Europe where I live in the US.) I have always been perceived as rude and blunt, and in recent years those with typically American social attitudes have even begun pathologizing behaviors like mine as being "on the spectrum". As to why I am like this was a mystery to me in childhood. I acted just like my family and extended did! Everything was normal at home, and then I would treat someone at school like I would treat a sibling and it would result in arched eyebrows. Turns out my family's attitudes towards socializing were strongly influenced by my mother, since she was a stay at home parent. And she came from a part of the US made up of small agricultural communities that were mostly German and Dutch in origin. These small communities had transplanted their national cultures in little bubbles all over the US, and by dint of mostly isolation from the broader culture had maintained those mores for centuries. It was only when my mother had moved away to the city that this culture shock occurred, about 150 years after immigration. So yes, there is a lot of cultural variation in the US, probably not as much as in Europe, but it exists. There are subcultures within the US of various vintages that exist alongside the mainstream culture that have all learned how to be different and coexist at the same time.